NWR the Cycling Thread

The brains of the operation was struggling to remember Dumoulin's name, so he's now called 'du-du' in our household. :eek:

He comes across very well. Meanwhile Nibali and Quintana have let themselves down, so agreed If Du-Du doesn't win it, then Pinot would also be my preference.
 
Yesterday it seemed the domestiques of the leading teams were stronger than the contenders, today they were a lot more flaky.

All are suffering at the moment, and Quintana will need to be much better to even get on the podium at the TdF. It was very striking over the course of the Giro, how often he could punch a 10-20 second gap, yet couldn't maintain it. The strategy for Movistar hence revolves around sending guys up the road, such that if he can bridge, then he gets the tow he needs to maintain or increase the gap.

Of all the Giro teams, Movistar had much the best squad, but they underperformed today, limiting Quintana's options. FDJ were surprisingly strong and Katusha-Alpecin also strong enough to really turn up the speed on the big climb.

Sunweb very weak, though Kelderman crashing out removed their best support rider. Ten Dam did admirably, but at 36 he's in decline. Geschke is a tough old boot, and came through well later on.

Sky were one of the strongest, but lost Elissonde and Thomas, plus with the time losses for Landa, gave them little choice but to chase the climbers jersey and thus run a different race to the other teams.
 
So today Tom Dumoulin got help from Jungels, Mollema, Yates in his pursuit which probably handed him a few tens seconds and probably garantees his victory tomorrow.
Nibali and Quintana proved they met their limit in this Giro and could not do better. Apart from Dumoulin, the fight will be close enough tomorrow for the podium.
 
Antoine Singer said:
So today Tom Dumoulin got help from Jungels, Mollema, Yates in his pursuit which probably handed him a few tens seconds and probably garantees his victory tomorrow.
Nibali and Quintana proved they met their limit in this Giro and could not do better. Apart from Dumoulin, the fight will be close enough tomorrow for the podium.
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and Quintana got help from Nibali, Pozzovivo, Zakarin and Pinot
and Pinot got help from Nibali, Pozzovivo, Zakarin and Quintana
etc.

:rolleyes:
 
Today proved along with some of the other big climbing stages what a tough Giro route it has been with the main contenders on their knees and unable to make big time gaps.

A great stage but the 2 groups of alliances almost cancelled each other out, surely now its Dumoulin's for the taking barring any disasters?

Jungel's will win the young riders jersey and Landa has salvaged what little Sky and himself could hope for with the KOM
 
Ian Sutton said:
and Quintana got help from Nibali, Pozzovivo, Zakarin and Pinot
and Pinot got help from Nibali, Pozzovivo, Zakarin and Quintana
etc.

:rolleyes:
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Ian,
It did not escape your wisdom that Quintana, Nibali, Pinot, Pozzovivo and Zakarin (class 2,3,4,5,6 within 1 minute and a half) had a common interest,last opportunity and urgent need to collaborate to take time on Dumoulin (not enough as today revealed) while Jungels, Yates and Mollema did not have any interest in gaining or losing a little time on the men in front as this was the last stage before TT and they had no chance to improve their position.
Moreover, this was the first time in this Giro that Dumoulin got help from other riders when he was in difficulty (even from those whose interest it would have been).
So yes, he owes Jungels, Yates and Mollema a big thank you. Nothing wrong with acknowledging help when you get it.

Congratulation to Dumoulin, he is a great TT rider and gave everything in the mountain to win it ... which he managed in the end.
 
Cycling is all about temporary alliances. There are times where it makes sense to 'weigh anchor' and just sit on someone's wheel to demoralise them and nick a few seconds at the end. Cyclists do remember though, so unless you've got team instructions or a vested interest not to ride, few would just hitch a ride and not work. It's a balance of the benefits of riding vs. not riding, and only the FDJ rider had any advantage in not riding.

The challenge for Quintana, Nibali, Pinot, Zakarin and Pozzovivo (in descending order) was that they had to balance burying themselves & getting jumped for the bonus seconds, or being cute and working moderately hard, knowing that even if it came back together, they'd still have a chance. I've seen situations where the 'virtual leader' has been forced to lead the others out, because they clearly have the most to win. This was complicated by the unknown of the time trial, but there were times the frail alliance was sorely tested and Quintana would have had a sore elbow from the amount of times he flicked it. They would have gained more time had they not distrusted each other - which is a very natural emotion.

We could just as easily criticise the week 2 & 3 alliance between Nibali & Quintana, which in the end very nearly let Pinot steal one of their spots on the podium. I'm not sure any of us would have predicted the need for them to work together for so long in this race - more so we expected them to be fighting it out themselves.
 
I'm normally pretty happy with Hatch, but his commentary on the closing stages today was really poor, with his 'stream of consciousness' only very late on realising that Quintana was at risk of falling behind Nibali. Much better IMO as someone who just keeps things moving along on ordinary stages.

I'd heard the criticisms of Sean Kelly, but was determined to judge for myself. Not especially impressed, not least because he's been commentating for quite a while and could be expected to be better by now. The brains of the operation is more scathing of him, describing him as better suited to rambling. Brian Smith is often interesting, but he at times seems too close to the teams / riders still, such that he can come across as politically diplomatic. Rob Hayles doesn't get much airtime, and I'm not a fan, but maybe he'll calm down.

I'll caveat this by saying:
- Everyone struggles in comparison to David Millar, who seems to read the race very well, but offers amusing, yet brutal/cutting insight.
- Everyone comes across brilliantly in comparison to Phil Liggett, someone who had got embarrassingly close to Lance Armstrong, but who also stuck around too long.
 
Ian,
I was not criticising just observing what happened.
I further observe that, in an alliance (like Nibali and Quintana you mention), both sides hope to benefit. What was different yesterday was that Jungels, Yates and Bollema had nothing to gain from helping Dumoulin which triggered my remark.
More generally
The organisors of the Giro wished Nibali to win the 100th edition of the Giro and, realising that Quintana was stronger than Nibali in the mountains , they included 2 long time trials in this edition (40 and 30 kms). They had not thought about this being a great opportunity for Dumoulin and he took the opportunity and won it. Congratulations to him!
If the time trials had been 60 km in total for instance, the 3 best cyclists may have drawn in the same time...almost
... Nibali was not quite good enough to beat Quintana (but close).
Pinot lost circa 4 and a half minutes in time trials on Dumoulin and regained about 3 minutes elsewhere which led him to trail by 1mn 17s in the end. His downfall was his mediocre time trial performances.
So everybody can observe that the choices of the organisors influence the result. Nothing wrong with this
What was great this year was that many riders were close to each other and maintained the suspense till the end with a worthy winner.
 
Keith Prothero said:
Where did you hear Carlton? He is a hell of a lot better than that annoying idiot who is on Eurosport with Sean Kelly. Rob Hatch is it ? His voice drives me nuts.
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It appears I misunderstood. Whoever was lead commentaror on Eurosport knows as much about cycling as I do. In my defence, I'm a clueless member of the public. He is paid to be better than Phil Liggett. Shame he couldn't deliver.
 
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Yes agreed Mark. He is an absolute idiot with a very annoying habit of always giving Christian names . And his accent bugs me too !! At least Carlton is amusing . Funnily enough the feed I was watching in South Africa of the first few stages did have Carlton as commentator with David Lloyd as expert summariser ,and the latter is good
 
Chapeau Dumoulin, well deserved and a win for either Quintana or Nibali would have not seemed right to me.

Antoine, completely agree with your point on the ajdustments to the route this year at the Giro had favoured Dumoulin from the beginning although the brutal climbing at the back end of the race should have evened things out somewhat.
I remember Christian Prudhomme altering the points structure of the green jersey to 'allow the possibility' of Cav being able to win it, in the Tour so its always a structure that can be altered to shape the final standings.

Ian, yup, David Millar is by far the best, his insight and humour are always great to listen to, even on long flat stages.

Rob Hatch I generally didn't mind too much, Phil Ligget....hhhhmmm nope.
 
Very pleased for Dumoulin.
At times during this Giro he looked like a Bison being pursued by a pack of lions, this was a remarkable victory given that his team were weak and offered him little support at the sharp end of some very difficult stages. Mentally he is clearly incredibly tough. However if I were him I'd be looking to move team next year.

Not sure what to make of all the others-for me Nibali is a very unlikable character but he's a good racer. Quintana was the big disappointment-he's beginning to look like a "fact track bully" in that everything has to be laid out for him to finish the job off-he seems to have little or no instinct for racing and with the team he has around him that just isn't good enough. If I were Movistar I would be backing Valverde for the tour.

Final mention for Landa-great he dug something out of the wreckage of the Giro. He was clearly in blistering form, but is this a rider who struggles with the pressure of leading a team for GC?.

John
 
In terms of livening a race up, I can see why people like Nibali. Sometimes those actions are instinctive, brilliant or just over-confident, but he seems to shake it up as much as Contador. More entertaining than many, but then Zakarin was just as lively in this race (albeit less marked). There are occasional actions that more than stretch the rules / sense of fair play, but also a little too much whining in prior years (less so recently?). Easy to see how very differing views are formed.

I hope for Quintana he just wasn't in good form, as this should have been his race to win in the mountains. He'll take a little comfort from a moderately decent time trial performance, despite looking quite ill at ease on the TT bike. He is over-cautious, but he cracked often enough to suggest he wasn't in the form we expected.

Pinot. I fear he may be a 'nearly man'. A few podiums, some great stage wins, but unlikely to make bigger gains on his best days, than he loses on his weaker ones. We'll see.

Anticipation rising at Dumoulin vs. Froome in the near future

As for Dumoulin, he's reported as close to extending and might have already done so. Kelderman has done so, and if you imagine someone as capable as Mollema or Jungels or Amador supporting as last man instead of Ten Dam / Geschke, then you'll see why Kelderman was such a big loss and the prospects of support are brighter than appeared. Add in some younger climbers coming through on the team, who will replace Ten Dam when he retires, plus an opportunity for them to dip into the rider market in August, as they attract people happy to support Du-Du in his big races, but get their own GC opportunities with a team that is likely to focus on that more strongly.
 
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