Starting a cellar / newbie help - six years on

Not sure what to say - to me it looks all good, but a bit too "classic" for my tastes, at least. Personally I'd want a fair few from "new Spain", Portugal, Languedoc-Roussillon and Italy outside the classic regions (esp the south). And Greece, of course;)
 
Mark, I'm all ears for suggestions. I'm going to be an expat in various parts of the world for the next 10-15 or so years so looking to build a cellar for that period and then rebalance in 5-10 years once we become more geographically settled.

Any suggestions that meet that criteria?

Thanks
 
Andrew Byrne said:
Hi all,

Just thought I'd provide an update on where I've ended up as the year has progressed. I know others had suggested that they'd like to hear how these threads progress. As always, would love to hear of ideas where you think I should be adding. Crititeria and background is higher up on page 4:

Red wines

2016 (48): Cullen Margaret River Cabernet Sauvignon Merlot (6), Ch Batailley, Pauillac (6), Echo de Lynch Bages, Pauillac (6), Ch Grand Puy Lacoste, Pauillac (6) Ch D'ISSAN, Margaux (6), Ridge Monte Bello (18)
2015 (18 + 3M): Madiran Chateau Montus Cuvee (6), Meerlust Rubicon (6), Chateauneuf-du-Pape, Domaine du Viex Telegraphe (6), Chateauneuf-du-Pape, Clos des Papes (3M)
2013 (57 +12M): Meerlust Rubicon (12 + 6M), Sotanum Collines Rhodaniene Vins de Vienne (6), Cote Rotie Domaine Burgaud (6), Domaine Serrigny Savigny les Beaune PC Dominode (6), Barolo Baudana Luigi Baudana (3), Barbaresco Pio Cesare (6), Totaka Directors Reseve Red (6), Penfolds St Henri Shiraz (6) Chamonix Reserve Pinot Noir (6), La Rioja Alta Seleccion 874 (6M)
2012 (36 +12M): Meerlust Rubicon (24 + 12M), De Toren Z (6), De Toren Fusion V (6)
2011 (24): Chateau de Charodon Gevrey Chambertin Premier Cru Creots (6), Warwick Estate Trilogy, Simonsberg (6) Kanonkop Estate Pinotage (6), Ch La Croix St Georges (6)
2010 (36) Ch Cantemerle, Haut Medoc (6), Ch Cos Labory St Estephe (6), Ch Bourgneuf, Pomerol (6), Segla, Margaux (6), Ch Batailley, Pauillac (6) Croix de Beaucaillou, St Julien (6)
2009 (36): Ch Batailley, Pauillac (6), Château Moulin-Riche, Saint-Julien (6), Ch Bourgneuf, Pomerol (6), Ch Cantemerle, Haut Medoc (6) Ch Clerc Milon, Pauillac (6), Ch Clerc Brane-Cantenac (6)
2008 (6): Kanonkop Estate Paul Sauer (6),
2007 (6): Ch Leoville Barton, St Julien(6)

White wines

2016 (12): Berncasteler Doctor Riesling Kabinett Thanisch (6), Brauneberger Juffer Sonnenuhr Riesling Willi Haag, Auslese (6),
2015 (6): Chateauneuf-di-Pape Blanc, Domaine du Vieux Telegraphe (6)
2009 (12): Domaine Berthet Bondet Chateau-Chalon (12)

Sweet wines
2016 (12 + 12H): Ch Suduiraut Sauternes (12H), Ch Climens Barsac (12),
2014 (6): vin de constance (6)
2013 (18): vin de constance (18)
2012 (18): vin de constance (18)

Champagne

2008 (6): Boizel Grand Vintage Brut

Port

2015 (12 +1M): Croft Quinta da Roeda (6), Cockburn's Vintage (6 + M)

*H = Half Bottle, M = Magnum

What would you look to add next given my buying criteria? What obvious holes are there? 2015 Bordeaux?
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Yes the 14 is missing, sometimes well priced and still a good year. Have a good look around as to what suits you. My cheaper ends are Lafon Rochet but Canon isn’t too bad either (£300 for 6)
I see you have some Riesling but check out Howard Ripley and speak to Sebastian. The Peter Lauer 2012 GG is a lovely rounded dry white and there are a few decent red Pinots as well. Grand Crus at decent prices so worth a case or two.
Few good ideas there I may check out as well. Thanks
 
Andrew Byrne said:
Mark, I'm all ears for suggestions. I'm going to be an expat in various parts of the world for the next 10-15 or so years so looking to build a cellar for that period and then rebalance in 5-10 years once we become more geographically settled.

Any suggestions that meet that criteria?

Thanks
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Think many of us are going to become economic migrants with what is abut to hit us :(

Did you mean specific suggestions from certain regions?
 
If you are unsure of Burgundy but want to look at Pinot then some of the higher end NZ pinots maybe worth putting aside - Felton Road perhaps. Elsewhere in France names like Tempier may offer good VFM and are in your bracket - others will have favourites....maybe have a look at the line-up and post-lunch reports from the WIMPS 'Less celebrated France' lunches! For long lasting dry rieslings then Grosset in Oz is one name to look for. And as Mark says, JJ Prum always a favourite for the classic Teutonic riesling.
 
Great thread, seems like lots of us are enjoying this one.

From the notes, there is a lot of thought and planning going into your purchases so I wanted to offer a suggestion to look out for the opportunistic deals too. I would recommend waiting for the regular Waitrose sales and picking up some 1er Cru Chablis from Fevre, some Musar, maybe a new world pinot like a Mount Difficulty - all around or below the £20 mark. They have some reasonable Rieslings too. You wont find anything niche here but that doesn't sound like your plan generally. These are quite classic wines worthy of most cellars.

I rarely buy NV champagne at fully price, usually waiting for a reasonable supermarket deal and buying 3-6 at a time. It's a great way to buy at that £20 or less price point and NV champagne really does reward a year or more in the cellar so should feature. If exploring champagne further for your own knowledge, I'd recommend the Wine Society grower case - they have some very interesting things at good prices but will have a mix of styles so you'll have a good change to drink broadly and learn from it.

Lastly, when it comes to picking some of the higher end wines, I would recommend buying a good number of bottles ready for drinking now on the likes of bidforwine or at other online auctions. That's the best way to gather a few bottles to let you experience the pleasures you are cellaring the wine for. Then you can begin buying those wines form a position of knowledge, they are significantly more expensive so worth a little more time to get right. Offlines are also a great way to do that too!
 
Reporting back on this thread again after another year. Two years now since this wonderful forum helped me get up and running. The quality of wine I have been drinking since then has been astonishing.

I bought 76 bottles in 2017 at an average of just over £20 / bottle, so a bit less than the 100 or so I now expect to buy each year. Haven’t kept as close a record as I might have, but I think I took about 25 bottles out of the cellar this year, so less than the 30 to 40 I expect.

The 100-bottle rack in my cellar is now full and so boxes are starting to sprout up on racking that is supposed to be there for tools etc. I also started to store wine at TWS. I’m now confident enough to buy 6 or 12 at a time when I know what I like and that the purchase makes QPR sense. Examples this year include 2004 Tondonia, 2005 Cissac and 2014 Pataille Marsannay. Also had a bit of luck when I saw seven bottles of 2004 Bollinger LGA marked down for no obvious reason at my local Tesco Express.

Hedonic adaptation is the main threat to this very happy state of affairs. I was at a tasting dinner at Berry Bros earlier this year, which was very enjoyable, and gave me a sense of what the summits look like. I’m becoming increasingly aware that I might be drinking Meursault where currently Rully will do. But I’m perfectly happy with my Rully (let alone my Kumeu River), and I’m determined not to rush. It’s fun to go through the gears slowly and thoughtfully. As always, any advice anyone would care to give, I'd be delighted to receive.
 
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Good stuff. One thing that it is worth acknowledging to yourself, (if it indeed applies to you in the end), is touched on in your last paragraph. It may be that Rully/Kumeu River continues to give you great pleasure and upgrading to supposedly 'better' names doesn't offer as much incremental VFM as you might have thought. It is tempting to think the great names will please you more but sometimes that just isn't the case, in which case in that segment of the market eg Chardonnay, stay mid-market and splurge where you really get the incremental benefit for your palate. Not everything has to ratchet up.
 
Alistair Scott said:
Good stuff. One thing that it is worth acknowledging to yourself, (if it indeed applies to you in the end), is touched on in your last paragraph. It may be that Rully/Kumeu River continues to give you great pleasure and upgrading to supposedly 'better' names doesn't offer as much incremental VFM as you might have thought. It is tempting to think the great names will please you more but sometimes that just isn't the case, in which case in that segment of the market eg Chardonnay, stay mid-market and splurge where you really get the incremental benefit for your palate. Not everything has to ratchet up.
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Wise words.. I also find that there are some types of wine where I'm tempted to pay for more expensive bottles (for me, Bdx red, northern Rhone & Marg River) .. find it hard to resist temptation to "invest" in these, and so the household budget takes a bit less of a beating if I can restrain myself to more ordinary examples of others (e.g. happy to drink Rully or Kumeu and not Batard-Montrachet)..
 
one other thought for Jamie B .. devote a bit of floorspace and budget to the "forgotten corner of the cellar" theory. Some of my most unexpected wine experiences are of finding a few bottles or a half-case of wine in some corner of the cellar/garage that I bought years ago & had completely forgotten about, and discovering to my delight that inattention and the passing of time in that undisturbed backwater have transformed the gawky teenager into a graceful mature bottle of beauty and sophistication.. even better, by then one has forgotten how much the gawky teenager cost..
 
Lots of celebratory and anniversary wines here (which is a good thing) but disturbingly there is a marked absence of variety, country, region, and varietal. Without going into budgetary considerations, there is a world of fine wine that doesn't command collector frenzy that, with cellaring, transforms into wonderous wines of extraordinary depth and character. I cannot think of a better time to start than early in the game.

I cannot emphasize the lessons I've learned and experiences I've had over the years with "non-collectable" wines. If there was a phrase that was the antonym caveat emptor I'd use it.

Cheers .................... Mahmoud.
 
I'm no expert on Cahors and Madiran but bought Chateau de Chambert's Cahors (a 1988) some time ago mainly because I had none in the cellar at the time. Early Coutales were rustic but are now fleshier and modern and quite popular since it made Wine Spectator's top 100 list. As for Madiran I suppose Chateau Montus would be a good choice - bought a couple of them to fill the "cellar gap" so to speak.
 
I am new to the forum and found this interesting as I have started a cellar/collection recently. I decided when my Musar colletion reached 15 that I should add some others to the collection. I tend to initially buy single bottles on the recommendation of mu local wine shop who know what i like. If I really like them I will purchase a further 3 bottles - one for myself,one to share with friends and one to keep for the future.
I do like the original posters £20 average theory which seems to work well. I have room for around 100 in my "cellar" although I also have a 24 bottle wine rack which is for day to day drinking and this works well for me. In recent months a decent number of wines have graduated from my rack to my cellar.
Really enjoying learning from the forumites on here though I did ony join earlier this evening!
 
That's kind of how I started too Willie and a few bottle here and there soon begin to mount up and picking up some extra bottles in sales and suchlike.

I still have many of the earliest bottles as they are claret with a long life ahead and the only issue is picking the right to time to despatch some of your oldest friends!

Welcome to the forum too.
 
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