Krug 2008

Steven Pritchard said:
Krug 2008 is 92-93/100 wine for me, drink 2023-2027.
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Steve, but 92-93 isn't a bad wine. It might be a bad value, but not a bad wine. I think the two need to be differentiated and addressed separately. You could also throw in whether it is a great or weak Krug. You can have a very good wine, but one that is still a poor value and a weak Krug. Comtes 2011 is a wine in a similar situation for me.

I have 2008 Krug at 90-92 for drinking today with 92-94 potential over time. Grande Cuvee 164 is clearly drinking better right now and has more potential as does the 165. The 2006 vintage is also very enjoyable today (much more than the 2008) and the 162 Grande Cuvee is absolutely wonderful right now with the perfect mix of orange, cream, and freshness with just a touches of chocolate and nutty spice.

I share your opinion on 1990 and 1996 as both wines started out as acid monsters in their youth and have seen a lot of bottle variation as they have matured. I have had great bottles of both, mature bottles of both, and acid bomb bottles of both. 2002 just seems closed down right now to me though it was quite open on release. Alone and staring at the label, I really like the 2002, but in every blind tasting I have done on the 2002 vintage, it has never finished better than middle of the pack for me and has never stood out as something truly 'special' though it always did appear to be a wine with the reserves to further develop.
 
Russell Faulkner said:
Maybe I’m alone but the approach to pricing and the manufactured scarcity puts me off buying these wines now.

There is a whole new batch of exciting growers to explore so that’s my focus. Not to mention the old lot!
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Certainly agreed re the growers. Though if Comte 08 release pricing is indicative back vintages will move higher pretty soon :(
 
I was just yesterday remembering that back in 1978 I walked into a Central London wine shop and picked up two bottles of Dom Perignon that my parents wanted to give someone. They were £55 each. What's that in today's money, I wonder?
 
Thom Blach said:
I was just yesterday remembering that back in 1978 I walked into a Central London wine shop and picked up two bottles of Dom Perignon that my parents wanted to give someone. They were £55 each. What's that in today's money, I wonder?
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£322 according to the Bank of England calculator. Making recent releases something to a bargain!
 
Gareth Germain said:
Certainly agreed re the growers. Though if Comte 08 release pricing is indicative back vintages will move higher pretty soon :(
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Bit late for that I think.

Jostling aside, I think the point Brad is that we’d all expect Krug to do better with the vintage - it’s a communal disappointment over the efficacy of one of the great champagne houses compounded by an odd release strategy.

I assure you, there’s several of us that would be happy to feed into the demand if it was at all justified.
 
Russell Faulkner said:
Maybe I’m alone but the approach to pricing and the manufactured scarcity puts me off buying these wines now.
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this x100. It’s bad enough producers trying to rig the market when they know they’ve got a truly exceptional wine to sell. When they know they’ve really underperformed in a hyped vintage and yet they still try to scam their customers, that’s the point when they’ve lost me as a customer forever.
 
Krug are certainly repositioning things.
The Krug MV at £150 (though maybe pushing to £200 soon).
Straight vintage at £400-450.
BdB at £800-£900.
BdN at £1800-2000.
I guess there is potentially a nice symmetry there but it does mean anything but the MV is definitely out of our price bracket and that might head that way soon except on rare occasions if you can find it discounted.

I guess when they see Comte raising its prices and then the raft of growers rapidly pushing their prices up it kind of makes sense for them to keep that super premium LVMH brand at the top of the pile.

But yes a great shame they have done so with what appears to be an average wine in an exceptional vintage :(
 
Gareth Germain said:
I guess when they see Comte raising its prices and then the raft of growers rapidly pushing their prices up ....
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I found some growers have quite ambitious pricing for their own "prestige cuvee" these several years. Some are actually very good wine, but 160 EUR a bottle with no chance of supermarket discount.... is there a market for those wine?
 
Po-yu Sung said:
I found some growers have quite ambitious pricing for their own "prestige cuvee" these several years. Some are actually very good wine, but 160 EUR a bottle with no chance of supermarket discount.... is there a market for those wine?
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Would seem so. So many producers didn’t even have top cuvées to sell as they’d already sold out in about 60% of our visits last month. Even good shops in Reims and Epernay had quite a few things missing. Some of that is no doubt supply issues (one of labels, bottles and cap supple issues in many places we visited but most seems to be demand.
 
Po-yu Sung said:
I found some growers have quite ambitious pricing for their own "prestige cuvee" these several years. Some are actually very good wine, but 160 EUR a bottle with no chance of supermarket discount.... is there a market for those wine?
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That would represent a real exception. And I’d always pay a bit more to avoid my wine going through a supermarket distribution network.
Of course a bargain is a bargain though.
 
Gareth Germain said:
Krug are certainly repositioning things.
The Krug MV at £150 (though maybe pushing to £200 soon).
Straight vintage at £400-450.
BdB at £800-£900.
BdN at £1800-2000.
I guess there is potentially a nice symmetry there but it does mean anything but the MV is definitely out of our price bracket and that might head that way soon except on rare occasions if you can find it discounted.

I guess when they see Comte raising its prices and then the raft of growers rapidly pushing their prices up it kind of makes sense for them to keep that super premium LVMH brand at the top of the pile.

But yes a great shame they have done so with what appears to be an average wine in an exceptional vintage :(
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Aside from significant irritation at the way they've handled the 08, those prices make it a very easy decision. I’ve more than enough krug, let alone other prestige champagnes, to last a lifetime. Feel bad for everyone else now trying to buy though, just as I did when burgundy lost the plot.
 
Dan Baillie said:
Aside from significant irritation at the way they've handled the 08, those prices make it a very easy decision. I’ve more than enough krug, let alone other prestige champagnes, to last a lifetime. Feel bad for everyone else now trying to buy though, just as I did when burgundy lost the plot.
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How many people are trying to buy Krug?

Not sure there will be that many people in mourning...
 
Dan Baillie said:
Aside from significant irritation at the way they've handled the 08, those prices make it a very easy decision. I’ve more than enough krug, let alone other prestige champagnes, to last a lifetime. Feel bad for everyone else now trying to buy though, just as I did when burgundy lost the plot.
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The thing is that it happened so quickly.
I came in fizz drinking really not long ago (since the year I fell asleep at your stairs!). Just within 5 years, Cristal retail price jumped from £120 to £200 (Waitrose price), Comtes £100 to £150 (not to mention that M&S discount on Comtes 06. And I got Comtes 04 from Four Walls for £75), Krug, Charles Heidsieck BdM...
 
Po-yu Sung said:
The thing is that it happened so quickly.
I came in fizz drinking really not long ago (since the year I fell asleep at your stairs!). Just within 5 years, Cristal retail price jumped from £120 to £200 (Waitrose price), Comtes £100 to £150 (not to mention that M&S discount on Comtes 06. And I got Comtes 04 from Four Walls for £75), Krug, Charles Heidsieck BdM...
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Have you realised how fast central banks are printing "money"? Not restricted to Champagne, although it has been a large beneficiary. If you look at price increases in certain grower champagnes, the grand marques look mild in comparison over the last year and have been very strong since 2016, and the market is literally awash in freshly printed over the last 18 months.

Bubbles everywhere... even in bubbles.
 
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