NWR Anyone buying a Tesla Model 3 (or any BEV) ?

I don't know, but there's plenty of irresponsibility to share around. From the FT: 'Each bitcoin transaction uses the same amount of power as 436,000 through the Visa payment system.' BTC is bad enough, but it really riles me when so-called green companies like Tesla turn out to be exactly the opposite. If Tesla can't be bothered to be properly green, why should consumers? It sets an extremely poor example and gives fuel (no pun intended) to those who are sceptical about green initiatives.
Would it make a difference if all bitcoin mining was done 100% from solar energy?
 
Does a transfer really use a lot of (marginal) energy. I don’t begin to understand the technology but that seems illlogical.

Sounds a bit like whataboutism Richard.
 
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Does a transfer really use a lot of (marginal) energy. I don’t begin to understand the technology but that seems illlogical.

Sounds a bit like whataboutism Richard.
I really don't understand how you can conclude that. It is highly germane, indeed of the essence, to be able to assess holistically whether owning a Tesla is better for the world than not. In that assessment you have to look at the overall impact of owning an electric car produced by a particular company. Of course there are environmentally deleterious aspects such as the mining and refining of heavy metals which is both energy intensive and polluting, but this is necessary to produce an electric car. To the contrary owning BTC is entirely optional. Any company of standing based on a green sales platform would have concluded that the environmental footprint was extremely poor and would have a really negative impact on the real environmental cost of ownership. I know it's uncomfortable to consider these issues, but it is important that we do.
 
I really don't understand how you can conclude that. It is highly germane, indeed of the essence, to be able to assess holistically whether owning a Tesla is better for the world than not. In that assessment you have to look at the overall impact of owning an electric car produced by a particular company. Of course there are environmentally deleterious aspects such as the mining and refining of heavy metals which is both energy intensive and polluting, but this is necessary to produce an electric car. To the contrary owning BTC is entirely optional. Any company of standing based on a green sales platform would have concluded that the environmental footprint was extremely poor and would have a really negative impact on the real environmental cost of ownership. I know it's uncomfortable to consider these issues, but it is important that we do.
Tesla's mission is to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy. If that were on a UK politician's manifesto, they'd have no trouble dabbling with BTC...

Got to say, it will be a factor to take into account when replacing my current car.

There are alternatives, BTW - eg. this Peercoin — The Pioneer of Proof of Stake
 
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What kind of battery degradation have others experienced with their teslas? They claim the car has a 340 mile range when fully charged. Mine has only ever shown c. 310-320 and it is now maxed out at 292m. "Trip" max is now 262m. Of course, real world range is a lot less but that's down to my driving style.
 
I really don't understand how you can conclude that. It is highly germane, indeed of the essence, to be able to assess holistically whether owning a Tesla is better for the world than not. In that assessment you have to look at the overall impact of owning an electric car produced by a particular company. Of course there are environmentally deleterious aspects such as the mining and refining of heavy metals which is both energy intensive and polluting, but this is necessary to produce an electric car. To the contrary owning BTC is entirely optional. Any company of standing based on a green sales platform would have concluded that the environmental footprint was extremely poor and would have a really negative impact on the real environmental cost of ownership. I know it's uncomfortable to consider these issues, but it is important that we do.
Richard, I think it's erroneous to view Tesla as a green or environmentally friendly company. Elon Musk is an entrepreneur and businessman; his goal is to create value and make money. That EVs may be better environmentally than other choices is entirely incidental. Musk is also into non-research space exploration, which involves burning eye-wateringly vast amounts of fossil fuel. And his personal behaviour suggests a raging narcissist who cares about little beyond his own ego.
 
What kind of battery degradation have others experienced with their teslas? They claim the car has a 340 mile range when fully charged. Mine has only ever shown c. 310-320 and it is now maxed out at 292m. "Trip" max is now 262m. Of course, real world range is a lot less but that's down to my driving style.
It's not really "they" as such - more what WLTP or whoever says. I think about 5% is common, and it seems to occur quite quickly before stabilising. Will be very interesting to see how other manufacturers fare on this.
 
It appears that recycling EV batteries is not an easy task, but at least some work is going on at prototype level to work out how to do it. Recycling the batteries is hazardous and difficult.
I thought one of the ideas was to use them in less demanding roles - eg. energy storage within the home, where a bit of degradation isn't an issue? I'm sure the technology will improve massively, combined with improved battery chemistry relying less on the awkward ingredients like Cobalt. There will be a lot of money in this in years to come.
 
For sure this won’t be a significant issue. It’s not like ICE cars automatically turn into tin cans.

Tesla are already building full automated recycling facilities in the ‘gigafactories’
 
It’s not like ICE cars automatically turn into tin cans.
Very true, but recycling an ICE vehicle is a low-cost, low tech, non-hazardous activity.

Here's another article talking about the complexities and dangers. It appears that all the battery recycling processes are still at the PR stage rather than being able to scale. I'm sure scaling will be possible, but it will take quite a lot of innovation and capital to get there.

 
Meh, seems like whataboutism to me.

Like the conversation a few pages back about brake dust.

Theres an economic incentive to make it work - a lot of residual value left in the battery (and bear in mind that batteries last much longer than most people expect - and every indication is that the usable life is significantly longer because theres less to break) and the market will sort that out.
 
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