Burgundy why bother ?

Ian Black · Jan 12, 2017

Of course, you may have to wait for 25 years or so before you get any pleasure at all from those GC's Nigel, at least if the 2015s turn out like some 1990 GCs.

billnanson · Jan 12, 2017

Nigel Lierop said:
An interesting benchmark (assuming one's spending is disposable income) was a recent discussion with a tailor friend. 18 bts of basically any 2015 GC vs one of her suits which should last as long and (one would hope) give pleasure on more than 18 occasions.

She can make a suit for me - but I'm afraid all my GCs would be 2005s

Keith Prothero · Jan 12, 2017

Must be missing something there. 18 bottles of 2015 Burgundy GC is the same price as one of her suits ? Bloody hell. Expensive suits then.
Cannot think of any half decent GC at less than £100 plus per bottle
Are suits tax deductible Tom ?
You learn something every day

Nigel Lierop · Jan 12, 2017

Keith Prothero said:
Must be missing something there. 18 bottles of 2015 Burgundy GC is the same price as one of her suits ? Bloody hell. Expensive suits then.
Cannot think of any half decent GC at less than £100 plus per bottle
Are suits tax deductible Tom ?
You learn something every day

We are talking top end Savile Row.
They may be for Thom (as a costume) but not for most of us!

Alex Lake · Jan 12, 2017

So is this Kathryn Sargent?

Mattia Volonte · Jan 12, 2017

well, If I already well tasted the wine and enjoyed it, I would not open the bottle.

Thom Blach · Jan 12, 2017

Nigel Lierop said:
We are talking top end Savile Row.
They may be for Thom (as a costume) but not for most of us!

Perhaps I should sell a case or two of older GC and buy a top-end suit for the first time ever. I may have reached the right age!

Rob Lockwood · Jan 12, 2017

Nigel Lierop said:
An interesting benchmark (assuming one's spending is disposable income) was a recent discussion with a tailor friend. 18 bts of basically any 2015 GC vs one of her suits which should last as long and (one would hope) give pleasure on more than 18 occasions.

I've tried my hardest and have to reluctantly conclude that this is beyond satire: well done Nigel!

I really don't think this is the thread for me.

Nigel Lierop · Jan 12, 2017

Alex Lake said:
So is this Kathryn Sargent?

No - Antonia Ede - ex Huntsman and now trading as Montague Ede on Brewer St.

Rob - I've spent an unhealthy amount of time reading books on tailoring and teaching myself to sew over the past 2 years and (now) understand quite why they charge what they do. I am quite sure that the price people pay for Burgundy is as puzzling to most?

Gareth Germain · Jan 12, 2017

A bespoke suit for £1500 is a steal if it's done well. If you factor in 2 to 3 or even 4 fittings and the cost of the fabrics as well as the 400-60 hours to make it the profit margins are perfectly reasonable (voluminously I'd bet!) in comparison to GC Burgundy.

David Crossley · Jan 12, 2017

I agree with Gareth. A Kathryn Sargent suit is all hand made, and by tailors in London. Nothing is farmed out, as with my Gresham Blake suits. And all those costs include a Saville Row rent too.

But as KS was the first woman on Saville Row, and as far as I know still the only female head on the street, you know you will get something special. A case of knowing your GC will be better than your PC.

Nigel Lierop · Jan 12, 2017

I've not seen many G

Gareth Powell said:
A bespoke suit for £1500 is a steal if it's done well. If you factor in 2 to 3 or even 4 fittings and the cost of the fabrics as well as the 400-60 hours to make it the profit margins are perfectly reasonable (voluminously I'd bet!) in comparison to GC Burgundy.

Most GCs look to be over 600 per 6 no?

John Thomson · Jan 12, 2017

Gareth Powell said:
A bespoke suit for £1500 is a steal if it's done well. If you factor in 2 to 3 or even 4 fittings and the cost of the fabrics as well as the 400-60 hours to make it the profit margins are perfectly reasonable (voluminously I'd bet!) in comparison to GC Burgundy.

There aren't many (decent) tailors offering bespoke at 1500 well done or not!

Claude Kolm · Jan 12, 2017

I should think that any self-respecting tailor would be selective in which grands crus could be offered. Romanée-Conti, La Tâche, Musigny -- from selected sources, only -- ok, but just any Corton, Clos de Vougeot; or Charmes-Chambertin shows a lack of breeding that should not be accepted in trade.

Gareth Germain · Jan 12, 2017

John Thomson said:
There aren't many (decent) tailors offering bespoke at 1500 well done or not!

Apologies I misread, and thought the ref was 15 £100 GC bottles! It did seem rather cheap when I thought about it!

And Claude yes I think any self respecting Taylor should be selective in their GC offerings, at least the for first few fittings!

johnny Shek · Jan 13, 2017

All jeans are hand made - product of PRC, inclusive

David Crossley said:
as KS was the first woman on Saville Row, and as far as I know still the only female head on the street, you know you will get something special.

Sexist comment! Male tailors are as special as female ones!

Steven Pritchard · Jan 13, 2017

Did I just wake up on the Singer sewing forums? I'm waiting for the thread on comparing Pinotage to bad, 1980's knitting patterns.

Neil Holland · Jan 13, 2017

Bespoke suits better than off the peg for sure but quality of tailoring, fabric and stitching is what makes a suit not which postcode it was made in.

Keith Prothero · Jan 13, 2017

Best to buy in Hong Kong as I did for many years. Tailor used to come to my office for the various fittings.

Having worn suits daily for about 40 years it's great now to never have to wear the wretched things

Keith Prothero · Jan 13, 2017

Back to topic. At present prices think it is nuts to buy GC or most PC burgundy and I have stopped buying for at least a year . Also drink a hell of a lot less of it

Thom Blach · Jan 13, 2017

Keith Prothero said:
At present prices think it is nuts to buy GC or most PC burgundy

Sadly I couldn't agree more, Keith.

Mark Carrington · Jan 13, 2017

Keith Prothero said:
Back to topic. At present prices think it is nuts to buy GC or most PC burgundy and I have stopped buying for at least a year .

The shock wave is even now reverberating through the market. If this news doesn't cause prices to fall, nothing will.

Vinod Stalam · Jan 13, 2017

I think 2016 will be an interesting litmus test for pricing. Would expect pricing to be closer to 2014 levels (on a currency adjusted basis), based on vintage hype/Hospice auction, but who knows.

Alex Jagger · Jan 13, 2017

As much as I'd love a really great suit I always worry that even if only subtley for something classic that styles and tastes change and it would become unwearable long before it wore out.

Also, if its fitted to that degree then isn't the fit susceptible to even modest weight changes!

Dan Baillie · Jan 13, 2017

Best supplier of bespoke suits at sensible prices used to be good old ("Naff") Haff in Leman Street. I remember back in the 90s and even early 2000s being able to buy a suit with 2 pairs of trousers for £600. Just one old chain smoking east end guy ding the fitting/booking with a couple of Indian guys doing the cutting and sewing. There was always a queue of whos who from the City waiting in this grotty warehouse.

As to sub £100 GCs, plaudits go to Drouhin Laroze as usual. Their superb bonnes mares and clos de beze were available this year for 485 and 540/6, respectively. Ditto Lamarche, who's malconsorts (a GC in all but name) was 450/6.