Buying wine at the winery for discount at retailer in UK

That is a bit ridiculous and not what I've said at all. If you had read my post you would see that is not what I asked. You may not see why this would happen but I have actually purchased wine from a winery in NZ this way. The only reason I can see why a retailer would be interested in this type of thing is some sort of advertising for them, giving them the chance to increase their customer base with the risk of that customer buying from them again or not.
No it's not, because it's the scenario you are putting forward here. You're just dressing it up differently.

Something Shon (as an ex retailer) hasn't said is that why would a producer compromise his/her relationship with the retailer by putting forward such a scheme?
 
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Hi Mark
If sent to Yorkshire, then VAT (and indeed duty but that's the stupid scenario HMRC have put themselves in) should be paid by the vendor (i.e French VAT)... unless the wine is shipped in bond.
I'm not sure what the rules for Bermuda would be.
regards
Ian
 
I have recently taken delivery of 3 cases of wine from a French supplier. Some two months after the event they have just invoiced me for French VAT on the wines (over and above the price which I paid them back in November). My understanding (based on UK practice) is that supply to an overseas buyer is VAT exempt in the country of supply, and that any taxes payable are a matter for the country of purchase.

Is that right, does anyone know, please? If so, it seems to me that I should not pay the new invoice for French VAT.
Were they delivered direct from France, Mark? if so I can't imagine why they hadn't charged VAT. Perhaps they thought you were a bonded warehouse. It is, as has been pointed out, the merchant's responsibility to charge all due taxes at the time of purchase, but to buy wine like this is I think not strictly legal anyway-though you must know better than me!
 
Putting 2 and 2 together... I wonder whether they had previously shipped without paying VAT, and then also received the communication that Jonathan received, putting the wind up them & prompting them into asking you for it.

Personally I think it would be sensible, and arguably fair, to come to an agreement where they pay part and you pay part. You bought as advertised & reasonably expected that local sales tax (French VAT) would be paid. If they've cocked it up, then arguably you could tell them to stuff the VAT invoice, but I think an amicable sharing of the burden would be better all-round.
 
I don't see why any retailer would agree to this.

Agreed. I also don't see how it might work.

Lets assume the retailer buys the wine through an agent/importer. The winery would have to inform their local agent to tell the retailer to hand over the bottles to the client who paid the winery. So far so good. Now lets look at the payment side.

The buyer pays for the wine at the winery presumably at cellar door prices. Surely they cannot charge the buyer either the importers wholesale price (their margin) nor the retail price as there are likely a number of retailers with their own markups, as it is likely to be unknown to the winery. So what we have is a cellar door payment that needs to get to the retailer and I'm hard pressed to figure out how it would work.

Generally speaking cellar doors sell wines at or near retail price, at least local retail, so as not to compromise the local retailer margins. They sell to the wholesale trade for a lot less, particularly if there are middlemen agents/exporters. Sometimes wineries offer exporters considerably bigger discounts in order to foster foreign sales. Therefore retail prices overseas may be higher or lower than cellar door prices depending on the wholesale price offered by the winery. Now if the wine costs the same or less in the UK market there would be no point in buying the wines at cellar door. If it costs more in the UK, then who makes up the difference? Paying cellar door prices therefore amounts to a discount even if the winery processes the payment received at cellar door through the agent/importer and onto the retailer.

Any way I look at it I can't see how this might work unless the winery ships directly to the retailer and can deduct the cellar door sale from future deliveries.

Mahmoud.

[Edited for clarity and typos]
 
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Hi Steven
If buying in Europe, refer to Jonathan's post near the start of this thread. Not only does it give you most of what you want, you can also treat it like a mini holiday, buying some fresh French produce and perhaps grabbing a good lunch. An overnight stay might even appeal (we loved our walk around a small village not far from Calais in late May a few years ago, and the accommodation was quirky but hosting was utterly charming / natural).

For other continents (and potentially also Europe in just over 2 year's time), it is how it is. The system won't make what you desire viable.

regards
Ian
 
I don't see why any retailer would agree to this.

We effectively did it for a customer, who was after two cases of a specific Pommard we don't list from a producer that we otherwise represent. I added an en primeur margin rather than a retail margin to the export price, while the cases were landed with a normal pallet order. Duty and VAT were paid conventionally. I don't know how it compared to a cellar door price, but then the customer only had to drive twenty miles to collect it. Result: happy customer, happy producer (as happy as a Bourguignon gets) and a few pennies in the bank. :)
 
Christopher, I think you will find that original question posits the opposite position. Whereas in your example the customer came into the store and requested a wine that you sourced, ordered, and priced accordingly (import cost, taxes, and margin), the original post talks about buying wines at a winery and picking it up at a UK retailer with whom he has no relationship. So imagine this same customer buying two cases of wine that you do carry at the winery, paying for it at the winery and then expecting to pick it up off your shelf. How would that work?

Mahmoud.
 
VAT is payable in country where the trade is done. The French supplier probably thought they were selling to a business, who would then account for VAT in the UK. Once they found out you didn't have a valid VAT number that they could give to their accountant or the tax office to explain why they were selling goods free of TVA, they charged you. I would take advantage of the personal allowance of 90lt of duty-paid wine between EU states by collecting the wine yourself from a convenient location. I'm almost certain that this allowance will disappear in the next 2 years.
 
There is no such specific personal allowance, Jon. It's a guideline:

'Although there are no limits to the alcohol and tobacco you can bring in from EU countries, you’re more likely to be asked questions if you have more than the amounts below.'
 
I'm a little confused by this thread. It's the word "discount" that sticks out.
I thought OP was interested in getting some unusual wine to the UK - that isn't already imported.
In what sense is this a discount?
If it's a ruse to save a few quid on something already available on the shelves, then forget it!
 
I'm a little confused by this thread. It's the word "discount" that sticks out.
I thought OP was interested in getting some unusual wine to the UK - that isn't already imported.
In what sense is this a discount?
If it's a ruse to save a few quid on something already available on the shelves, then forget it!

It reads a little like the OP wants to pay winery prices but have someone else 'deal with' the import details and duties. I don't know the process but would presume that the discount would come via the retailer being prepared to forgo their usual profit margin (taking into account costs incurred through time, effort and physical resource) in order to bring the cost closer to that if bought and collected at source, with the 'benefit' to the retailer being that the OP may then look favourably on buying from them again in the future... or not. The OP doesn't say if the wine is already available in the UK but at prices he's not happy with...
 
He said "This is about wines that can be purchased in the UK, not those which aren't." which is utterly bizarre!

The reson he said this is because he wants to pay the winery (presumably at cellar door prices) for the wines that he can collect from a UK retailer. He then wants the winery to tell him which retailer stocks the wine. Then he wants the winery to inform the retailer that the buyer will collect the wine. Presumably the winery and retailer will work out a financial arrangement between them. There's no point paying for wines at cellar door if no retailer in the UK is stocking it.

Mahmoud.
 
The reson he said this is because he wants to pay the winery (presumably at cellar door prices) for the wines that he can collect from a UK retailer. He then wants the winery to tell him which retailer stocks the wine. Then he wants the winery to inform the retailer that the buyer will collect the wine. Presumably the winery and retailer will work out a financial arrangement between them. There's no point paying for wines at cellar door if no retailer in the UK is stocking it.

Mahmoud.

Presumably, if the retailer already stocks the wine, they and the winery will have already worked out a financial agreement which is beneficial to both parties to stock the wine in the first place?
 
Well, I'm assuming that OP is not an idiot!

Although I'm wondering if I am.

He said "This is about wines that can be purchased in the UK, not those which aren't." which is utterly bizarre!

I would assume the OP isn't an idiot either, but was probably hoping to find some 'insider tips' from seasoned wine lovers to try and get his preferred wine at a better rate than he'd otherwise pay if he just walked into a shop... but that viewpoint assumes that honest retailers haven't already considered carefully all costs involved with importing the wines they stock, accounting for time and effort too, when they set their prices here in the UK.
 
Maybe my own situation will answer the question.

If a UK-based customer asks me if I can ship wine to the UK for them, I tell them I can have it delivered by my trusted merchant, a certain Leon Stolarski. If they raise an eyebrow or make some retractions, I tell them we can ship it direct but they will have duty and courier fees to pay on top. If they agree to that, I take their money, phone my trusted merchant, give him the money and get him to deliver the wine :)
 
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