DIAM - yes please!

[Alex Jagger]

Technically, the closure is an integral part of winemaking.

Then I modify my statement to mean decisions other than closure in the winemaking process.

If using Diam reduces, or even eliminates, premox issues without compromising the development of white burgundy in other ways that is clearly a good thing and I'm all for it.

My point would still be that something else changed around 20 years ago and finding better closure solutions is only one piece of the jigsaw
and a reactive one at that.

 

[Steven Pritchard]

I agree Alex, problems with the closure will obviously exaggerate issues pertaining to oxygen exposure (something that Premox is obviously related to).

It seems a back handed solution, something similar to what Bollinger attempted: they took away the SO2 added at disgorgement, realised they had an oxidation problem, so introduce a bottle with a thinner neck to compensate. A shame as the latter has taken several years to show some promise, whereas we KNOW that adding SO2 correctly would have solved it straight away.

 

[Raymond Tilney]

I am still waiting to experience the first wow moment and then find that Diam is the closure.
On the other hand when a potentially great bottle has to be donated to the sink owing to TCA, I do get sad.
We are drinking a lot of Chardonnay that is under screw cap, but it is middle of the road stuff that is not more than 4 years old.

 

[Ian Black]

On the use of DIAM for champagne, the examples I have had were all more low-end wines if I can put it that way - straight house NVs and the like. There's a degree of (understandable) conservatism involved I think in introducing a new closure. I don't know if (Steve and Ray) have found the same, as I'm sure you both get through far more of the stuff than I do! But I only mention it as I don't think I've really seen any wow-able wines under Diamant corks yet.

 

[Steven Pritchard]

On the use of DIAM for champagne, the examples I have had were all more low-end wines if I can put it that way - straight house NVs and the like. There's a degree of (understandable) conservatism involved I think in introducing a new closure. I don't know if (Steve and Ray) have found the same, as I'm sure you both get through far more of the stuff than I do! But I only mention it as I don't think I've really seen any wow-able wines under Diamant corks yet.

Perhaps we haven't seen enough matured wines (under DIAM) yet, they may need longer to mature than regular cork (would it be true to say that the wine is more oxygen starved under DIAM, i.e. less ingress)?

 

[Alex Jagger]

Exactly Steve, I agree on the need to see far more wines which have reached maturity and what kind of maturity that is in relation to cork.

If it works, fantastic and I'd happily purchase wine with such a closure to reduce that tca from 3% to zero.

 

[Mahmoud Ali]

I wish I could place my hands on the wonderful picture of Hunter semillons - all the same wine / same vintage in the same case, with colours running the full range from pale to f*cked loved up.

I don't know if this is the one you were thinking of because it involves 1999 Semillon from the Clare Valley.


View attachment 2570
According to the source:

"These bottles are all 1999 Clare Valley Semillon made by Kerri Thompson of Leasingham Estate. The bottles were part of an experiment conducted by the Australian Wine Research Institute and were sealed with various natural and synthetic cork closures, with the exclusion of the bottle sealed with a screwcap (far left).

"Sensory evaluation confirms our visual intuition: the screw-cap sealed bottle retained its freshness and prevented oxidation far better than any other kind of closure. UK wine journalist Jamie Goode tasted the wine and reports on it here:

So, some 10 years and eight months after bottling, how does this wine look? It’s a full yellow colour, with a minerally, flinty edge to the attractive honeysuckle and citrus fruit nose. The palate has a lovely focused fruit quality to it with pithy citrus fruit and a hint of grapefruit. There are also some subtle toasty notes. Very attractive and amazingly fresh for a 10 year old Clare Semillon."

Mahmoud.

 

[johnny Shek]

I definitely had a corked bottle of champagne under DIAM. A second bottle disgorged on the same day was fine.

 

[Steven Pritchard]

I definitely had a corked bottle of champagne under DIAM. A second bottle disgorged on the same day was fine.

But there is a possibility of the wine being infected with TCA from sources other than the cork.

What wine was it?

 

[Ian Black]

Perhaps we haven't seen enough matured wines (under DIAM) yet, they may need longer to mature than regular cork (would it be true to say that the wine is more oxygen starved under DIAM, i.e. less ingress)?

That's a good question. I've no idea what oxygen transmissibility philosophy the Diamant corks are made to. If it turns out to be too "tight" then it can be made more porous, like the DIAM corks for ordinary wines. There must be some figure available. I get the distinct impression that "normal" champagne corks don't suffer from as much variability as still wine corks - is that due to the much higher compression involved?

The other thing that occurs to me is that champagne corks lose their elasticity over time. Often it doesn't matter, but it does occasionally cause a seal failure. I think we need to be alive to the possibility that Diamant corks may ultimately fail differently. Whether that is better or worse than cork remains to be seen.

I suppose the equivalent to screwcaps would be Crown corks or their slightly spiffier variants, but they normally are only to be seen on a few Pet Nats and petillant wines like muscatty things, as yet.

 

[Raymond Tilney]

That's a good question. I've no idea what oxygen transmissibility philosophy the Diamant corks are made to. If it turns out to be too "tight" then it can be made more porous, like the DIAM corks for ordinary wines. There must be some figure available. I get the distinct impression that "normal" champagne corks don't suffer from as much variability as still wine corks - is that due to the much higher compression involved?

The other thing that occurs to me is that champagne corks lose their elasticity over time. Often it doesn't matter, but it does occasionally cause a seal failure. I think we need to be alive to the possibility that Diamant corks may ultimately fail differently. Whether that is better or worse than cork remains to be seen.

I suppose the equivalent to screwcaps would be Crown corks or their slightly spiffier variants, but they normally are only to be seen on a few Pet Nats and petillant wines like muscatty things as yet.

Ian,
The cork shrinkage issue that Tom Stevenson warns about in his encyclopaedia, re keeping champagnes in the fridge for too long at serving temperature,In my experience Diam closures are more prone to shrink than regular champagne corks.

 

[Ian Black]

Interesting, Ray. Not one I'd come across but I only ever put stuff in the fridge before serving. But that suggests it is the plastic (resin) component.

 

[Nayan Gowda]

Ian,
The cork shrinkage issue that Tom Stevenson warns about in his encyclopaedia, re keeping champagnes in the fridge for too long at serving temperature,In my experience Diam closures are more prone to shrink than regular champagne corks.

Now that is interesting. Not something I've observed.

Is this with all Diam, or just Diamant (the Diam used for bubbles)?

 

[Ian Sutton]

Thanks for that Mahmoud - I have it in mind that it was a case pulled from storage, but that photo / study is certainly just as remarkable.

 

[Raymond Tilney]

Now that is interesting. Not something I've observed.

Is this with all Diam, or just Diamant (the Diam used for bubbles)?

Observed only on fizz.
I move bottles from 12 degree to a 7 degree zone usually for say 1/2 day prior to serving.
On a couple of ocassions when I have had a change of mind I forget to move the bottles back, I noticed the cork had shrunk, particularly on a Cuvee Orpale 02 champagne under Diamant that stayed in the colder zone for a couple of months.
The closure was squeeky and slack compared to others of the batch.