NWR EV thread (was "Anyone buying a Tesla Model 3 (or any BEV) ?")

[Richard Lodeman]

Next time I need to purchase a car I would be keen to go electric but, as with David, also live in a city centre terraced house making charging a critical issue

Long term hope I guess would be that with autonomous driving and some sort of induction system or self plugging mechanism that cars could just shuffle around the streets or car park at night charging up then freeing the space once charged for the next self drive vehicle. When you need the car in the morning it just comes to you. You can then extrapolate this of course to having the charging parks out of town or to why actually own a car, you just get whatever car is available and charged near you.
With the technology, but also the legal and commercial issues I guess we may be some way off this!

Induction charging in Norway Norway will install the world’s first wireless electric car charging stations for Oslo taxis

 

[Richard Zambuni]

I think the concept of fixed batteries that need to be charged while you wait is inherently flawed. An alternative system would be to commoditise and standardise modular battery packs that could be swiftly removed and replaced with a freshly charged pack. Perhaps the batteries are still too heavy/large for this to be viable, but it would go a long way to solving the range question.

That just wouldn't be feasible logistically or financially Phil. The equipment required for moving large and heavy batteries around and having to pay for the personnel to do so would simply rule it out. Not only that manufacturers would resist this like the devil because developing better batteries is at the heart of competitive advantage with electric cars. Richard L's hypothesis about what might happen once some cars are fully autonomous is more likely. It would make more sense to commoditise the charging infrastructure such that any electric vehicle can charge at any charging point.

 

[Thomas DiWan]

Thomas, excuse my ignorance but do Tesla drivers use separate chargers to everyone else?

I suppose the Tesla satnav tells you where the chargers are and how many there are.

If this is the case, that really makes a difference.

Find Us | Tesla

This is me using the Tesla supercharging map. Red dots are Tesla-only supercharger and black dots are Tesla only destination chargers (installed by hotels, restaurants etc on premise to attract customers). There's obviously a lot more charge points that are not Tesla-specific. This is fully integrated in sat nav (including live update on how many stalls are available at any given supercharging location at that point).

 

[Bill Marks]

Thomas, excuse my ignorance but do Tesla drivers use separate chargers to everyone else?

I suppose the Tesla satnav tells you where the chargers are and how many there are.

If this is the case, that really makes a difference.

Yes - Tesla Superchargers are unique to Teslas.

Yes the Sat-Nav tells you where they are, how many there are, and how many are free..

It really does make a difference - at the moment I would not buy another EV. This will change sometime in the future but for now they are the only sensible choice charging-wise.

 

[Paul Anderson]

I stop at Wetherby service station on my way to France (via Leicester) and remember there being various charging points that I was unable to use. Can't remember why but I seem to recall the network was not the one my current chargecard is with (were I get my car charged up for free). I think this one charged a fortune to charge your car as well.
Anyway I went on the Moto webiste to ask about the charging points and they can't even answer my question ("what charging points do you have for electric cars and hybrids?")




Looks like I have to engage with a 'human', who will most likely have a prolonged response time due to 'oil breaks dead on noon'*

My concern is that if the network is privatised we will have a proliferation of charging points that suit some vehicles but not others as well as a network that will require us to carry several different smart cards or apps on our phones. Some will be covered by an annual fee and some that will charge as you charge etc. etc. As the late, great Arthur Montford would say, "its a stramash".
I would have though lessons would have been learnt from VHS and Betamax.

* a music reference that I am sure Mr Crossley will recognise

 

[Tom Grande]

proliferation of charging points that suit some vehicles but not others as well as a network that will require us to carry several different smart cards

The only solution is standardisation and interoperability between networks to permit different contracts to be serviced at the same outlet

 

[Tom Cannavan]

Betamax and VHS? Apple chargers and everybody else's chargers?

 

[Paul Anderson]

That's why I have 2 charging cables in front of me right now!!!

 

[Phil David]

Some form of standardisation is a must. Any ice vehicle can roll up to any fuel station and fill up. That should be the goal for electric vehicles, if necessary supported by legislation. Transport is too important to allow the proliferation of competitive fuckwittery.

 

[Paul Anderson]

Unfortunately it seems to have started already.

 

[Alex Lake]

CCS is getting there as a standard.

Yes, legislation is needed. Partly just to get wayleave for charging stations. The southbound Supercharging station at Fleet has been waiting for wayleave for years now. If it were a telecoms installation, the land owners would not be able to block them.

I wrote to my MP about this and the too many standards of payment thing. Doubt anything will happen.

Also concerned that, despite agreeing that there's a climate emergency and that switching to electric cars is an effective help, HMG will increase the EV BIK - which in theory is a very attractive 2% from next year (it used to be 0%, but is now 16% - I think). Several people are buying slightly beyond their means to go electric, and this would be a lovely slap in the face for them.

 

[Julian Seers-Martin]

I think the concept of fixed batteries that need to be charged while you wait is inherently flawed.

The proliferation of full EVs in Southern California says otherwise.

The vast majority of drivers use their cars for a range that can comfortably be topped up overnight.

CCS is getting there.

Yes, and Tesla is getting on board with CCS too, as they're bringing out adapters.

 

[Alex Lake]

By the way, I believe* that Tesla did make an offer to other EV companies to share access to Superchargers (in exchange for a fair share of contribution to costs) but it has not been taken up.

*but have no evidence as such, just heresay.

 

[Alex Lake]

Do more people have drives in the US?

 

[Richard Zambuni]

Do more people have drives in the US?

The kind of people who buy Teslas mostly have drives in the USA.

 

[Tom Grande]

Richard are Teslas a lot cheaper to buy in the US due to subsidies? I heard that they were in California but that may have changed, or been a misunderstanding on my part

 

[Alex Lake]

The subsidies subsided a bit at the end of last year (part of the reason between Q4 and Q1 sales discrepancies).

Richard - I guess that would apply here too! If I didn't have a drive, it would be a major negative for buying EV - unless I lived next door to a SuperCharging station.

 

[David Crossley]

I stop at Wetherby service station on my way to France (via Leicester) and remember there being various charging points that I was unable to use. Can't remember why but I seem to recall the network was not the one my current chargecard is with (were I get my car charged up for free). I think this one charged a fortune to charge your car as well.
Anyway I went on the Moto webiste to ask about the charging points and they can't even answer my question ("what charging points do you have for electric cars and hybrids?")

View attachment 7247


Looks like I have to engage with a 'human', who will most likely have a prolonged response time due to 'oil breaks dead on noon'*

My concern is that if the network is privatised we will have a proliferation of charging points that suit some vehicles but not others as well as a network that will require us to carry several different smart cards or apps on our phones. Some will be covered by an annual fee and some that will charge as you charge etc. etc. As the late, great Arthur Montford would say, "its a stramash".
I would have though lessons would have been learnt from VHS and Betamax.

* a music reference that I am sure Mr Crossley will recognise

I do indeed. And my Dad had an Eight Track in his car in the 70s!!!

Well, I can tell you that the Moto services, the first after the M25 on the M1 heading north, has two (that I've seen). One thing not everyone knows is that you can get a 10% discount in Moto M&S stores with an AA Membership Card. Possibly more useful than the charging points!

 

[Julian Seers-Martin]

Richard are Teslas a lot cheaper to buy in the US due to subsidies? I heard that they were in California but that may have changed, or been a misunderstanding on my part

Not Richard but yes, historically they have been. Entry level model 3 is between 35-39K USD. Subsidies are changing as Tesla's output has outgrown what they cater to, so they'll steadily get more expensive.

Do more people have drives in the US?

I would say 1 in 20 cars parked on the street where I live is a Tesla. Obviously, when it comes to driveways it changes dramatically, closer to 1 in 10. This is in part explained by the area that I live in, admittedly.

 

[Alex Lake]

Looks like I have to engage with a 'human', who will most likely have a prolonged response time due to 'oil breaks dead on noon'*

I guess you're not driving a Tesla? I wonder how étron and iPace drivers handle long journeys?

 

[Paul Anderson]

No definitely not. I drive a hybrid and only get about 20 miles on pure electric but my average fuel consumption over 40k miles is in the mid 40's mpg, which is as good as the similar model diesel I had before it. I also have a home charger installed and the full charge time has decreased from about 2.5 to about 1.5 hours over the past 2.5 years.

 

[Alex Lake]

No definitely not. I drive a hybrid and only get about 20 miles on pure electric but my average fuel consumption over 40k miles is in the mid 40's mpg, which is as good as the similar model diesel I had before it. I also have a home charger installed and the full charge time has decreased from about 2.5 to about 1.5 hours over the past 2.5 years.

I looked into getting such a thing and hoped that the vast majority of my journeys could be done on battery. In the end I didn't go for it because I couldn't find one that fitted my needs that was actually available - would have liked a Merc E350E estate (never been made) or Skoda Superb Estate Hybrid (theoretically coming some time this year).

 

[Paul Anderson]

While most of my local driving distances are short enough to be achieved on electric, I chose it because of the BIK tax implications. Saved me over £200/month compared to the diesel.

 

[Alex Lake]

Yes, I hear many people buy a hybrid for BIK but do virtually all their miles on gas...

 

[Stephen Locke]

Anyone know how easy it is to become a site for a charging point (Tesla or others)- often thought our practice car park could be a good location.