NWR EV thread (was "Anyone buying a Tesla Model 3 (or any BEV) ?")

Here's a balanced article on where we're at with battery recycling, with some specific comments on Tesla.

Wikipedia suggests that Redwood's technology can recycle up to 95% - which would be good. But are they actually doing that? Obviously the vast majority of cells ever made by Tesla are still in use in cars, but this will need to be sorted soon. I see that Redwood claim to be recycling the cells from about 45,000 cars/annum - which sounds about right - how many Teslas were being made each year about 10 years ago? (Answer - about 10,000) Now that they're churning out 1m cars/year, this'll have to be upgraded by the early 2030's.
 
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I wonder if this 2022 oil crisis will ring the final death knell for ICE cars? Plenty of issues still to be overcome given the state of the charging network, chip shortages etc etc but the cost analysis changes pretty materially once it starts costing people £100+ to fill up their ICE cars.
 
There are going to be massive supply-side problems though. Even (forgive me) leaving aside for a split second the desparate situation of Ukrainians, they make all the wiring looms for BMW and VAG and plenty of other components, as do Russians. Skoda factory is closed and plenty of others will soon follow.

As a bleeding heart liberal I feel guilty for stocking up on Russian razor blades a few months ago now.
 
There could be other ways in which high oil/gas prices will push the low/no carbon agenda. I was shocked that Boiler Juice are charging £1.25/litre of domestic heating oil (it was about 40p a year ago!). Trouble is that it's going to be a PITA to insulate this house to the level where a ASHP will do the job.
 
Electricity prices are climbing steeply, so not sure if the delta is growing. The need to wean ourselves off fossil fuels only becomes more urgent though both in relation to the climate and freeing ourselves from the authoritarian states who dominant oil and gas supplies.
When we ordered our EV, we were with Igloo Energy (RIP). Most night time EV rates were ~5p KW. By the time the car was ready in Decembe, Igloo had melted (gone bust) and we were transferred to EoN on a standard 21p rate. From April that will be 28p. It’s not looking like the bargain it originally was especially when you factor in the EV purchase prices. Of some comfort and surprise was the ridiculous second hand value of our outgoing Discovery!

Still loving the car though.
 
Are Octopus not offering you something on this? And are you able to consider solar at your property?
The energy market is in turmoil. Most company webpages, including Octopus, are advising customers to stay on the standard capped rate as that’s the cheapest option currently.

We did look briefly at solar but the initial outlay was very high and the aesthetics not appealing for an older victorian property. I know you can buy prettier panels/tiles but that was even more expensive. So we are keeping an eye on developments in this space for now.
 
The ones in Bordeaux used to be free but are now the price I quoted.

However you don’t need to pay parking charges when using them so it works out cheaper than parking with a ‘free’ charge.
 
The ones in Bordeaux used to be free but are now the price I quoted.

However you don’t need to pay parking charges when using them so it works out cheaper than parking with a ‘free’ charge.
A bit like Source London.
How long are you allowed to leave your car at these cheap ones? The problem with most "free" ones in the UK is that if you use them while you're shopping, it doesn't really do much.
While I'm still paying 5p/unit to charge at home, I can relax....
 
Notes on a journey from Cambridge to Val d'Isere and back in a Tesla Model S

Going out, we stopped overnight at the Novotel Beaune. We had the option to charge on one of the 4 destination chargers when we arrived at about 6pm, but ended up driving into town for a meal, so by the time we got back, all were in use and I had to pop to the supercharger in town for 20 min topup. We took the scenic route via Annecy (and stopped for a picnic on the Western side of Lake Annecy).

Charging in Val d'Isere was interesting - the izivia charger refused to charge my car, although I saw a model X plugged on on the other port. Their phone support was good, but diagnosed a fault with the machine (I'm not sure that was the case as such). I still paid 3 lots of deposit, which I'll see if I can get refunded. However, the Avanchers hotel were brilliant - with 4 Tesla destination chargers in their underground carpark that they were happy to let me use, even though I wasn't a guest or a diner. I had to use this excellent (and free) service twice as I'd inadvertently left sentry mode on while the car was parked underground in La Daille, and that guzzled a lot of juice.

On the way back we did it in one day (I wanted to be here for work today) - and in general the journey from Val d'Isere to Cambridge was a dream. Charging/coffee stops at Dardilly, Dijon, Chateauvillain Orgues (hard to get that as a waypoint), Champagne Nord, Urvillers, Splashette at Eurotunnel terminal, Maidstone. Only in UK were roadworks, bad driving and broken chargers a problem. We set off at about 07:15, arriving back in Cambridge just before 22:00 (including a diversion via the J26 truck stop on M25 to drop off a friend). So that was about 16 hours and I felt pretty fresh. Most was done at the 130kph limit on Autopilot, so that and the general smoothness of the Model S made it feel pretty effortless (although Northern France is pretty dull in terms of scenery). The downhill from Val d'Isere means that even 95% goes a long way, so the 2h53, 156 mile section was possibly the longest I've driven non-stop in this car.

One slightly odd thing I noticed was that the car was convinced that the road direct from Urvillers to Calais was closed/subject to jams, so insisted on diverting via A29/A1/Arras - this made the required charge somewhat more than it needed to be (the difference in time charging to 85% compared to 80% is significant as the charge rate drops to 40kW or less). I ignored it as ABRP and Waze were confident that the A26 was fine - as indeed it was. It may be that this was down to slightly stale traffic data.

This last leg from Champagne area to Calais would have been tricky in a non-Tesla EV, as Urvillers (St Quentin) is the only ultra fast charger on the Northbound A26. Non-Teslas would presumably struggle on this leg unless they had excellent range. Ionity have a couple of chargers (at Rely and Baralle) for Southbound travellers, but nothing in the Reims-Calais direction. Obviously this will change soon!

Eurotunnel was great - I arrived an hour earlier than expected and got a splash of charge at the terminal (enough to get me to Maidstone) and pretty much drove straight onto a train.

What else? Oh, the coffee machine in Urvillers offers the option of a madeleine with your coffee for a mere 50 eurocents, so I took them up on that offer both ways, and seemed to get an extra one for free on the return journey! Love madeleines, even these non-warmed, prewrapped factory-produced ones.

So, yes, not as quick/convenient as an ICE with a big fuel tank, but very doable and comfortable (maybe less tiring?).
 
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Still not fit for purpose IMHO - sounds like you got lucky with the Hotel Avanchers. The point is that if you can't find a charger you really are well and truly buggered. No way would I even attempt this in a non-Tesla EV .

I have the new Defender 110 hybrid coming as I realised that 80% of my journeys are <15 miles so can be done on EV only mode. But for long trips across Europe, petrol or diesel is still best.
 

Tom Cannavan

Administrator
Good to know that worked Alex, though I have to say, you EV drivers are still willing to forgive the current hassles (albeit minor) compared to internal combustion: 8 stops for coffee/refuelling on a 16 hour drive is a lot of stops, each one more or less enforced I guess rather than optional, plus the hassle you had of finding a charging station, having to phone the helpline for another and having to seek charging refuge from the friendly hotel where you weren't staying (what if they hadn't been so friendly?). Not at all sure that sounds like it was less tiring than doing it in ICE car?

I admit that having just bought a new mild-hybrid, I did fret a little about whether I should have gone for the PHEV version, but still did not even consider the EV version. In the end I am very content with the decision, not only because it's a lovely car, but I am still not sure even £1.60 a litre will cause a drastically worse total cost of ownership with the driving I do, and as your generally positive report proves, there are still some hassles with electric driving for now.
 
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Still not fit for purpose IMHO - sounds like you got lucky with the Hotel Avanchers. The point is that if you can't find a charger you really are well and truly buggered. No way would I even attempt this in a non-Tesla EV .

I have the new Defender 110 hybrid coming as I realised that 80% of my journeys are <15 miles so can be done on EV only mode. But for long trips across Europe, petrol or diesel is still best.
If I couldn't have charged there, there's actually enough regen on the descent to make it to the Supercharger at Lechere les Bains with only 20% battery (and I had enough).
And obviously it depends on what you mean by "best" ;-)
EVs are not nearly as romantic as your vehicles. One of the reasons I drove was because it's less polluting than flying.
And, yes, EVs are still only fit for pioneers who don't mind the odd arrow in their back.
But I post for information, not to start an argument!
 
Quite so Alex, not looking for an argument, and actually as a car enthusiast I am fascinated by electric propulsion and can't wait to get stuck in myself! Well done for trying (and succeeding) with the journey and appreciate your taking the time to post.

Personally I take a slightly different view on the carbon accounting of driving vs. flying as I do with re-using older vehicles vs. buying new but let's not get into that rabbit hole!

A question: gut feeling - would you attempt the same journey in a non-Tesla EV?
 
If it had >250 mile range, yes! Also, the recent announcement about opening up Tesla Superchargers to any CCS enabled EV means it'll be a moot question soon.
Anyone who claims that driving an EV doesn't mean some compromises on some long journeys (depends where, obvs) is a little delusional (not meant to be aimed at Russell!). It's ridiculous that it's still like this - and that our regular jaunts to York and back will only be practical from later this month when the Tesla Supercharger at Ferrybridge opens.
 
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