NWR Family size electric cars

Don't want to go too far off topic, but it's fascinating that these KIAs, Skodas and Hyundais are bringing out electric models with prices in the £40k-£50k bracket, and nobody bats an eyelid. I'm absolutely not meaning any offence to anyone who drives one, but in the past most people would never have dreamed of paying a £50k for a Kia or Hyundai. That was the territory of Jaguar, BWM, Mercedes, etc. who had the badges - the 'pride of ownership' thing - all sewn up. If all of these new cars sell, will the move to electric mean that it is tech, and not the badge, that wins, thus changing the landscape?
The thing is that they're cheaper to run (lower fuel, servicing, tax), and if cashflow is an issue, one can lease them. Depending on usage, Total Cost of Ownership is not as high as one might think.
 

Tom Cannavan

Administrator
It's a good point Alex Do you think the price differential between a KIA mid-size SUV and a Mercedes equivalent (for example) going to be maintained in an all electric world?
 
It's a good point Alex Do you think the price differential between a KIA mid-size SUV and a Mercedes equivalent (for example) going to be maintained in an all electric world?
Interesting question. Given that the batteries are fairly much the same, there will be the appearance of a smaller price gap.
I always said that the value of a £75,000 Tesla was about £20k Battery, £20k Charging network and £35k car (or some such combination).
Of course the great unfairness is that those in a position to have an EV as a company car are getting them half price.
 
Speaking as someone six months into a three year lease of a Kia e-Niro, it's been a stunningly good decision. The list price is pretty high but just looking at the TCO over the three years, it's so low that it almost doesn't even really register. We probably could have spent not too much more per month and got something with a flashier badge I suppose but I honestly couldn't care less about badges (in fact I'd actively avoid anything that'd be deemed "flash".) We did get 90% of the way into buying a Tesla Model 3 instead but bailed at the last minute - the Kia is much more family-friendly in my opinion, and I'd rather give battery tech a few more years to mature further before buying rather than leasing.

Did our first real trip last weekend - just under 100 miles each way to a friend's house. We did "granny charge" 10% via a 13 amp plug while there but it was silly, we didn't need to, a full charge easily covered the full return journey. Obviously that would be the same whether we're talking Kia or top-of-the-range Tesla though!
That's why I PCPed mine, although in reality, the value has been retained so well, I needn't have done. No big deal.
We do enjoy our long journeys in the Tesla (Tuscany, Cornwall, Pembrokeshire, Lake District, etc), which would be more stressful/time-consuming with other cars. Having said that, no brand - not even Tesla - is Yorkshire-proof. Last year's jaunt to Whitby involved spending more time than I'd have liked in the Lidl car park. That was largely because the place we stayed at didn't have any adjacent parking.
 
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Speaking as someone six months into a three year lease of a Kia e-Niro, it's been a stunningly good decision. The list price is pretty high but just looking at the TCO over the three years, it's so low that it almost doesn't even really register. We probably could have spent not too much more per month and got something with a flashier badge I suppose but I honestly couldn't care less about badges (in fact I'd actively avoid anything that'd be deemed "flash".) We did get 90% of the way into buying a Tesla Model 3 instead but bailed at the last minute - the Kia is much more family-friendly in my opinion, and I'd rather give battery tech a few more years to mature further before buying rather than leasing.

Did our first real trip last weekend - just under 100 miles each way to a friend's house. We did "granny charge" 10% via a 13 amp plug while there but it was silly, we didn't need to, a full charge easily covered the full return journey. Obviously that would be the same whether we're talking Kia or top-of-the-range Tesla though!
Top tip, thanks Bryan.

I leased a petrol car almost 3 years ago thinking we were not quite ready to go electric but may be in 3 years time. The lease is due to end in October and it was looking like we would go for another ICE vehicle but the e-Niro might swing it.

I find myself in the odd position of working in renewables for a utility who are encouraging the take up of EVs, being in receipt of a cash car allowance, but the company are not set up to enable us to either have company cars on their fleet or via a third party salary sacrifice scheme to access the tax advantages. Maddening. Although they will give me a (taxable but relatively sizeable) grant if I purchase or lease a EV and let them advertise on it. I am not convinced it is worth the potential aggravation from our aggrieved retail customers, of which there are surely many!
 
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Top top, thanks Bryan.

I leased a petrol car almost 3 years ago thinking we were not quite ready to go electric but may be in 3 years time. The lease is due to end in October and it was looking like we would go for another ICE vehicle but the e-Niro might swing it.

I find myself in the odd position of working in renewables for a utility who are encouraging the take up of EVs, being in receipt of a cash car allowance, but the company are not set up to enable us to either have company cars on their fleet or via a third party salary sacrifice scheme to access the tax advantages. Maddening. Although they will give me a (taxable but relatively sizeable) grant if I purchase or lease a EV and let them advertise on it. I am not convinced it is worth the potential aggravation from our aggrieved retail customers, of which there are surely many!
That’s crazy. Leaseplan will setup a salary sacrifice scheme pretty easily. Octopus also but they take forever.
we did it at our company and makes a huge difference.
 
Don't want to go too far off topic, but it's fascinating that these KIAs, Skodas and Hyundais are bringing out electric models with prices in the £40k-£50k bracket, and nobody bats an eyelid. I'm absolutely not meaning any offence to anyone who drives one, but in the past most people would never have dreamed of paying a £50k for a Kia or Hyundai. That was the territory of Jaguar, BWM, Mercedes, etc. who had the badges - the 'pride of ownership' thing - all sewn up. If all of these new cars sell, will the move to electric mean that it is tech, and not the badge, that wins, thus changing the landscape?
An interesting point and there are a lot now in that 32-50k bracket.
The Skoda I’ve not seen before but the Enyaq Iv 80 looks pretty good from one angle :) and is 39k starting. they have a smaller battery version at 32k. Rather pedestrian 8.5 seconds 0-60 which is surprising,
The Jag was first on my list but that is pushing mid 60s which is just a bit too much for what is our second car.
The Kia EV6 is looking around 50ish K for a dual motor version. 50k for a Kia ? Mind you Skoda have come a long way as well.

Tech is certainly important and will help entice a new breed of consumer and driver.
 
We’ve been looking at electric cars and have just come to the conclusion they are just too expensive. The Kia e-Niro is £670 a month over three years with an optional final payment with 0% deposit. A VW ID4 is slightly cheaper. That’s just crazy expensive for what they are. Instead we’re looking at a second hand convertible Mercedes E-Class V6 for around half the price from 2015 with 40k miles on it. A much nicer car than those. I think we’ll take that for 3 years abs PX it on something’s electric when the market is a bit more mature and hopefully offers betters value. If not it’ll be a second hand Aston DB11 :cool:
 
Don't want to go too far off topic, but it's fascinating that these KIAs, Skodas and Hyundais are bringing out electric models with prices in the £40k-£50k bracket, and nobody bats an eyelid. I'm absolutely not meaning any offence to anyone who drives one, but in the past most people would never have dreamed of paying a £50k for a Kia or Hyundai. That was the territory of Jaguar, BWM, Mercedes, etc. who had the badges - the 'pride of ownership' thing - all sewn up. If all of these new cars sell, will the move to electric mean that it is tech, and not the badge, that wins, thus changing the landscape?
issue is they Jaaaaaag, BMV and Merk are 30k MORE than the equivalent model in the Kia/Hyundai etc ranges …. So reliance on marque is not a think anymore. all imho natch.
 
We were quoted that for no deposit over 3 years with a £12k optional payment. £260 sounds much better! How did you do that? I don’t have the option of paying through my employer I’m afraid using salary sacrifice.
Yes £300 or less is more like the price. Of course a business lease or salary sacrifice through a company can reduce the cost further. For example a 50k car on salary sacrifice over 3 years no deposit and insurance etc included can cost around £350.
Leases are getting better and plenty of options though via a company certainly more favourable.

They aren’t super cheap for sure, but getting there now,

edit. - quick search and it’s not quite as cheap as I thought but it’s a personal lease. £350 inc vat with no deposit over 3 years
 
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Yes £300 or less is more like the price. Of course a business lease or salary sacrifice through a company can reduce the cost further. For example a 50k car on salary sacrifice over 3 years no deposit and insurance etc included can cost around £350.
Leases are getting better and plenty of options though via a company certainly more favourable.

They aren’t super cheap for sure, but getting there now,

edit. - quick search and it’s not quite as cheap as I thought but it’s a personal lease. £350 inc vat with no deposit over 3 years
Who does that offer Mike?
 
Thanks Mike. Still a little unsure about leasing as effectively it’s cash down the drain. At least with the second hand Merc we are looking at an approx 25-30% depreciation so the costs would be approx £130 a month after we sold or PX’d at the end of three years.
 
Interesting question. Given that the batteries are fairly much the same, there will be the appearance of a smaller price gap.
I always said that the value of a £75,000 Tesla was about £20k Battery, £20k Charging network and £35k car (or some such combination).
Of course the great unfairness is that those in a position to have an EV as a company car are getting them half price.
Isn't the great unfairness actually to the people who are unable to spend more than about £500- on a car in rural areas? The cost of these electric vehicles is fanciful in the real world where a great proportion of people live.
 
Plus the difference in running costs. What does the Merc cost to run per mile...

All the options are money down the drain really. Whatever route you take, your costs are running costs plus depreciation. With a lease it's a known depreciation rate, with a purchase it's variable, but assuming an efficient market they should be similar. It's not an option for you or me but for anyone who can profit from the tax advantages of salary sacrifice, as long as they can home-charge and aren't doing a huge number of very long journeys it really does become a no-brainer.
Sadly we cannot charge at home. The Merc is much cheaper to insure but more costly to run (though it would be around 45-50mpg). Looking at local charging costs the most local ones are in car parks where you also have to pay. There would be savings but not as much as I had hoped. I think it’s just a bit early for us. As we’d like a nice car that’s suitable as a GT. The electric ones we can afford are just not really that kind of car. Hopefully in a few years they will be :)
 

Tom Cannavan

Administrator
Sadly we cannot charge at home. The Merc is much cheaper to insure but more costly to run (though it would be around 45-50mpg). Looking at local charging costs the most local ones are in car parks where you also have to pay. There would be savings but not as much as I had hoped. I think it’s just a bit early for us. As we’d like a nice car that’s suitable as a GT. The electric ones we can afford are just not really that kind of car. Hopefully in a few years they will be :)

Yes, as I think I said many pages back on the original electric car thread, I think we are in exactly the same position: keep thinking about it, but really for a host of reasons I think it will be our next but one car that will be all electric in 4 or 5 years, but we will probably choose ICE or mild hybrid when we change within the next 6 months.
 
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Sadly we cannot charge at home. The Merc is much cheaper to insure but more costly to run (though it would be around 45-50mpg). Looking at local charging costs the most local ones are in car parks where you also have to pay. There would be savings but not as much as I had hoped. I think it’s just a bit early for us. As we’d like a nice car that’s suitable as a GT. The electric ones we can afford are just not really that kind of car. Hopefully in a few years they will be :)
Yes once I quickly priced that up and saw it’s £350 on a personal lease it looks expensive though it’s just the cost of a £32-£34K car. Any new car would cost that but they are priced rather high for what they are. Essentially I pay that sort of value for a bigger, nicer car with insurance and everything included due to salary sacrifice. We also had a charger fitted at home for free which uses very cheap, off peak electricity. That for me is how it really makes sense. I think the company car route will also help sales and drive the prices lower as more adopt. maybe the second hand market in a few years might be the route and buy outright,
if I was looking right now for a main family car I would probably buy a 2-4 year old high spec petrol as diesel is the devil :)
My other cars are petrol.
 
Yes once I quickly priced that up and saw it’s £350 on a personal lease it looks expensive though it’s just the cost of a £32-£34K car. Any new car would cost that but they are priced rather high for what they are. Essentially I pay that sort of value for a bigger, nicer car with insurance and everything included due to salary sacrifice. We also had a charger fitted at home for free which uses very cheap, off peak electricity. That for me is how it really makes sense. I think the company car route will also help sales and drive the prices lower as more adopt. maybe the second hand market in a few years might be the route and buy outright,
if I was looking right now for a main family car I would probably buy a 2-4 year old high spec petrol as diesel is the devil :)
My other cars are petrol.
Maybe I need to set up a company. Sounds like a much better deal.
 
The issue with EV affordability at the moment is that there Is no secondary market at almost any level. It has to start somewhere and new EV‘s need to be sold to create that create a secondary market for £20k EVs in a few years and £10k EVs a few years after that. It’s not realistic to expect affordable second hand EVs for a grand right now. It will take time for the secondary market to reach everyone’s budget. In the meantime ICE is still the option.
 
Location
UK
The issue with EV affordability at the moment is that there Is no secondary market at almost any level. It has to start somewhere and new EV‘s need to be sold to create that create a secondary market for £20k EVs in a few years and £10k EVs a few years after that. It’s not realistic to expect affordable second hand EVs for a grand right now. It will take time for the secondary market to reach everyone’s budget. In the meantime ICE is still the option.

There's little point buying second hand when a) the technology is improving so quickly and once the major car manufacturers bring to bear the full weight of mass production new prices will come down; and b) batteries deteriorate irreversibly (in a more fundamental way than ICE). To me that means if you want one, lease
 
Location
UK
True - but when the large (ish) number of new leases start to expire over the next year or two, those cars will have to go somewhere. Typically ex-fleet and ex-lease cars are sold at auction. If they are seen as relatively undesirable for the reasons you mention, there could be some cracking bargains to be had.

Sure. Like everything, it depends on the price. But with an old battery depleting an already limited range, I would be wary of them being cheap for a reason... Caveat emptor
 
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