I can't drink this type of beer anymore...

I'm talking about contemporary IPAs...I poured most of the contents of my last acclaimed canned British 'craft' IPA down the drain. I found the intense flavours too much, rather crude, 'vulgar', unpleasant...and all too familiar...These flavours are getting repetitive...I'm seriously considering turning to wine...I don't mind old fashioned American hops...but the newer ones...I like the ones that aren't too far from old world hops...There are some very good American beers that are easily available that use these...But all this will, no doubt, fall on deaf ears, especially where members such as Alan are concerned, with their tight trousers and funny hairstyles.
 
...enjoying a Saint Archer Mosaic DIPA (9%) as I read this post. Juicy, sticky, resiny, packed full of tropical fruit flavours thanks to the New World hop that is Mosaic. This is the first time I've actually visited Saint Archer during daylight hours...our beer club chose this venue today.

I'm eyeing Saint Archer Bourbon Barrel-Aged Coconut Stout (13.4%) next. Not sure about New World hops for this one...
 
David you are a man very much after my own tastes. I have never warmed to the wall of flavours new world hops can create. I use them in brewing but often as minor late hop additions where they complement more traditional varieties. In the interests of research I brewed an IPA with Nelson Sauvin, Centennial and Cascade. The smell when fermenting was amazing and the taste was extraordinary. However, despite others loving the beer, I can't manage more than a half. It is easy to produce these big new world flavours but a much greater challenge to bring the best out of more subtle 'British' hops, exploring the relationship between the yeast strain, the malt base and style variations.

The best beers in the world are traditional bitters between 3.7 and 4.2%.
 
Alternatively, we could arrange you a 'moda Italiana' makeover:cool:
You'll look wonderful, but no promises that you will like the beers!

FWIW it was a trend that never suited my tastes, so I never pursued it, so I understand where you are coming from.
 
It does seem that some breweries are trying to out-hop each other. The addition of grapefruit to intensify a taste that's supposed to come from fresh hops is going too far in my opinion.

Double IPA, Black IPA, Red Ale, I wonder what the next trend will be? Double Bret Sour Tangerine Porter anyone?
 
It's interesting you mention wine David - it feels like the "New World wine" syndrome where a massive new market is pulled in by initially appealing and new flavours which then pale, traditional styles re-gain favour, and then the new boys start moving towards the trad styles too. All good, of course.

I've probably said it before, but beer is about malt, not hops. Discuss, with words not exceeding 12 letters in length.
 
OK, I'll stick my neck out. I like modern IPAs. Or at least the good ones. They need to be balanced, though, and that's one of the problems with some of them. Double IPAs and stronger ar problematic as there's a tendency for them to become oversweet and too intense. However, the better American IPAs and the best British beers in this style are excellent. I still enjoy a traditional English bitter but I do think that the emergence of craft beer in this country had made me more discerning when it comes to them.

Beer is about malt and hops in balance.
 
Lots of good points...One problem I have with certain hops is that I drank Brewdog's Hardcore too often years ago and became sick of the flavours. The hop combination: Centennial, Columbus, Simcoe, Amarillo, Citra, seems quite common now, and if I get similar flavours then it's not a nice experience for me (and it seems dull). But that's just one issue; I found the beer above to be unpleasant...acerbic, harsh, not enough malt (double IPAs don't have this problem in my experience). But yes, I really appreciate the use of malt in a beer...It seems that for new, young (fashionable) breweries you simply cannot use all British hops, it's a strange taboo...and probably commercial suicide.
 
Interesting, David. I never really liked Hardcore (which is a beer that I think may have improved in the past couple of years) but that was because I found it too sweet, almost confected. I think what you say comes back to balance although it does seem we also have different palates.
 
I think, yes, Hardcore can be very, very sweet (I have had bitter ones too), but it's the hop flavour that became too familiar to me. The beer I didn't name (I wasn't referring to Hardcore above) was Northern Monk's New World IPA. You may have had it, but I found it too much...I don't know. I have had many American IPAs over the years...I tend to go through phases. I stopped buying Brewdog beers ages ago...I pick them up, then put them back on the shelf...To think I used to defend them long before they became big business (remember the original Punk IPA four packs in Tesco?), when most people seemed to say they were terrible, and their beers hop juice. I notice supermarkets are now stocking a greater variety of them. Morrisons has their Elvis Juice (made with grapefruit, Dave!).
 
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'The best beers in the world are traditional bitters between 3.7 and 4.2%.' Dangerous to say this kind of thing on the internet, Kinley. Thankfully, this is a civilised forum (the above responses to my, er, contentious comments prove this). Your IPA sounds interesting. And of course, Cascade is the oldest of the modern American hops (I think)...Quite a down to earth variety (it has some Fuggles in it), subtly fruity, earthy, nothing like the crazy newer varieties (the classics from Sierra Nevada and Anchor are great showcases for it)...But yes, nice hops, yeast and malt, each used carefully (in their place), can produce fantastic results...
 
I recently had a bottle of Cambridge Brewery Boathouse Bitter (3.7%) Malty, toffee flavours with a touch of raisin. Not a hint citric or tropical fruit flavours. I do drink other beers apart from USA style IPAs.

After my experience with the Thornbridge 10% Jaipur. I am certainly moving away from double IPAs. I don't think hoppy beers and a lot of alcohol mix too well. One of my favourite beers at the moment is Hook Norton Trafalgar, a bottle-conditioned 5.2% IPA, which is a very British IPA.

Having said this I picked up a can of Vocation session IPA in Tesco. Another USA style IPA. This is good for 4.4%. Fruity and bitter. It is good to drink a variety of beer styles.

I had some more to say but I have to stand up as these tight trousers are killing me.
 
I think I'd go along with Kinley's trolling(!) but it's a very fine margin, with, for me, Munich-malt-based beers of all kinds (and especially German lagers) a very close second (more trolling!).

The beauty of traditonal Brit beers is that they can be drunk with (sensible) abandon whilst still packing flavour and interest, so they can actually refresh as well as intoxicate, over a lengthy session in good company. This is not to say that all the other beer styles aren't of interest, of course. To mix metaphors, a rising tide raises all ships as long as the baby doesn't go out with the bathwater. No, that's a mess. I'm sorry.

I tried another of Vocation's Alan - an American Pale Ale called Pride & Joy and found it a really good example of the style; I find APA the better expression of full malt plus "Pacifc" hops than the more full-blooded IPAs, as, for me, the relative lightness goes better with the fizz and the bitterness than the heavier body.
 
It is interesting to me that the original post came about because of a drink from Northern Monk. A friend of mine who is in the beer trade told me that someone was trying to sell him some Northern Monk beers a while back and the opened bottles were all affected by some brewing fault (sorry, I can't recall what it was). He raised this point with the guy who was unable to identify the fault despite being walked through it. He continued to extol the virtues of the ales. No order was placed.
I have yet to taste their beers but I am not rushing to find them, it feels like marketing guys rushing in to an explosive market looking for a nice return.
And that, I think, is the problem. For every decent American / 'new British' pale ale on the market there are dozens that are not good enough, brewed by folk jumping on the bandwagon and making inferior beers. For drinking at home I currently restrict myself to repeat purchases of cans I know well.
 
One of the great things about the "craft beer revolution" is the increasing number of breweries making really good, interesting beer. One of the bad things is the increasing number of breweries making dull, or even really bad, beer. There are a couple of breweries locally that some people I know get excited about because they are small, independent and local who's beer I simply cannot stand.
 
I must admit I'm a big fan of "modern" IPAs, from American producers such as Stone and Russian River, and home-grown versions from the likes of Beavertown, Magic Rock and many more. I appreciate this probably means in beer terms I'm the equivalent of a blockbuster shiraz or over-oaked chardonnay wine drinker. It's actually vaguely annoying that the IPA "movement" has taken such a stranglehold over the last few years. I loved 'em before that!
 
I think Vocation, mentioned earlier in this thread are currently the most interesting new brewery. At least that I have come across. Their cans are thoroughly modern and typical and very good for it. But the same beer from cask is an absolute revelation, probably one of the few cask ales I would search out. I think the Bread & Butter ale and Heart & Soul in particular are amazing. When last tasted next to some well kept Timothy Taylor's Landlord the Vocation ales were considered better.
I happily drink cask when the time and place is right but hardly ever go to cask dedicated pubs in Manchester.
 
Bryan makes a good point...Believe it or not I used to drink a lot of American hoppy beers...Stone Ruination, Sierra Nevada Bigfoot (it used to be £1.99 from Oddbins...As I've said many times on this forum, I still have a 2008 (which I bet is still hoppy)), Victory Hop Wallop, Dogfish Head 90 Minute etc..., when most new 'craft' 'fans' were in short trousers...Though I think the American IPA has changed since then (the hops used, for example). Just the fact that it's called a 'movement' is bizarre...the whole thing is completely alien to me...
 
Coincidentally, I tried a can of Vocation's Life and Death at the weekend and was very impressed. Certainly a brewery I'll look for again.

Me too. I bought 4 cans for a festival I'm going to but they didn't survive the weekend. A fine balance between malt and hops, a nice strength & very easy to drink!
 
I'm currently very much in love with modern west coast style IPAs, enjoying some of those panned above (love NW IPA and Vocation, have never had Hardcore though). They can be quite intense. I don't drink a lot volume wise so having one or two high taste / high abv beers usually works fine for me.

I can tire of them but being nudged into a few days away from any form of drink is no bad thing and wine used to do that to me as well, whether the overload came from wonderfully vanillan chards or earthy pinots.

I firmly expect my tastes to change, it's happened before. If on a day out with my old mates (a once or twice a year affair) I'll stay well away from highly hopped 5%+ beers, will have a great time but will get less interest and enjoyment from the session bitters I drink.

I really do find the new wave of 'craft' (for want of a better term) brewers invigorating, interesting, dynamic and challenging. I get from that style of beer now what wine brought me for a long time. I will admit to an internal wave of mild gloom if I find a pub with perfectly well presented traditional beers but nothing more. New wave brewing is my 6 Music on tap. The selection in my local bottle shop knocks most wine merchants into a hit of the cocked variety in terms of range and vfm/qpr: that can be done with beer in a way it cannot with wine. I'm able to chase great beers having had to give up on so much of interest in the world of wine. Apols for slight thread drift, this is not a beer wins wine sucks argument for me but affordability and interest are key parts of the wider picture.
 
Coincidentally, I tried a can of Vocation's Life and Death at the weekend and was very impressed. Certainly a brewery I'll look for again.


I tried this tonight...I didn't like it much. Lots and lots of flavour, good amount of bitterness...I just didn't enjoy it at all. But why? Perhaps it was too 'crude' for me, too harsh, all the flavours jarring a bit. Nice and fresh tasting, etc., but I just don't like it. I'm now drinking a Mackeson stout. At 2.8% (the last time I drank it it was 3%) it holds up well after the IPA (and before Life and Death I had a Brooklyn EIPA). A very pleasant beer that I'm really enjoying. I also preferred the EIPA. Kinley, I don't think you'd like the IPA at all...but it might be an idea to try it and see what you think...
 
Don't give up on Vocation, David. As I think I have already said the same beer translates so very well to a proper hand-pulled pint. It still might not be to your style but I think it is better than Timothy Taylor's and I don't have praise for hand-pulled higher than that.
 
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