Is White Burgundy Still Top Dog?

[Joel Hopwood]

Would anyone be interested in a 'white Burgundy nostalgia' offline, where we all bring along a bottle of white burg from the 1980s or early 90s? We can spend the evening wallowing in nostalgia and cursing pox and modern winemaking techniques (and prices).
I suspect some of us are sitting on the odd older bottle of white burg and are waiting for a suitable occasion to open it.
I have a 1985 Corton-Charlemagne from someone - Chartron I think. Colour looks good and I'd be happy to bring that.

I'd be up for this - poxathon mk 2? - and would offer 1993 Puligny 1er Folatieres from G Chavy.

 

[Paul Day]

Times have moved on. Lafon moved to Diam in 2013 I think. Recently the complaints have been of reduction not oxidation.

In this case, I believe he is targeting reductive aromas deliberately in the winemaking, rather than as a result of closure.

 

[Thom Blach]

Would anyone be interested in a 'white Burgundy nostalgia' offline, where we all bring along a bottle of white burg from the 1980s or early 90s? We can spend the evening wallowing in nostalgia and cursing pox and modern winemaking techniques (and prices).
I suspect some of us are sitting on the odd older bottle of white burg and are waiting for a suitable occasion to open it.
I have a 1985 Corton-Charlemagne from someone - Chartron I think. Colour looks good and I'd be happy to bring that.

Unfortunately most of them are now drifting off into the sunset, David, though older wines can still be exciting.

 

[David Pope]

Unfortunately most of them are now drifting off into the sunset, David, though older wines can still be exciting.

Then I suggest we drink them up before they vanish over the horizon.

 

[jonathan points]

Times have moved on. Lafon moved to Diam in 2013 I think. Recently the complaints have been of reduction not oxidation.

I’ve not drunk any since the change - on the basis that “top name” white Burgundy should not really be broached as young as three or four years of age. I base my opinions more on older vintages. It’d be very good if things have improved at Lafon.

 

[Edward Bolland]

I’ve had very positive experiences with Lafon from the 2007 vintage onwards. I stopped buying after 2000 for a few vintages when the wines were certainly not what one would hope for from such an address.

 

[Thom Blach]

I'm very glad in retrospect to have sold my Lafons from that period. Amazingly from today's perspective I used to get even a bottle of the Montrachet every year.

 

[Paul Anderson]

I was thrilled last night, at a very small Edinburgh Offline at The Chop House - there was only 4 of us, to taste a 22 year old white Burgundy that was absolutely singing. Being a steak house we were probably thinking too much about the reds but Mike suggested bringing a bottle of Meursault 1996 from Jobard. 1996 is widely thought of as the first vintage in which premox really started to show. Obviously we were slightly apprehensive when the cork (natural, of course) was pulled. First pour and the wine showed a slightly dark golden colour so first impressions were good. This was actually very similar in colour to the Au Bon Climat Chardonnay 2011 that Chris brought. First sniff was of flint and lemon. Totally typical for Meursault. Not even any real hints of natural oxidisation. I was perking up already. It was lovely in the mouth - initial tropical fruit with just a hint of fat following through into a fantastic citrus acidity that made the whole mouthful as fresh as a daisy. What a fabulous wine and a great reminder of what we are now sadly missing with aged WB.
Also thanks, and kudos, to Mike for having the courage to bring the wine.
The other wines were pretty good as well

 

[Mike Mitchell]

Thanks Paul!

I can only agree with your comments. It was indeed pretty good. On opening it was incredibly fresh but did then darken a little and take on more aged/oxidative notes. But it stabilised and kept going as long as it lasted (which wasn't very long ). Always had great respect for Jobard and the way it's made for real ageing (or was made). And this was "only" a Villages wine.

It was a bit bold after Paul's white Burgundy thread which of course just inspired me to bring it along. Boldness rewarded.

 

[Chris Welsh]

I'd be up for this - poxathon mk 2? - and would offer 1993 Puligny 1er Folatieres from G Chavy.

Me too. I have some early 90's Chablis. Truly memorable.

 

[Chris Welsh]

Great thread Paul, just the sort of discussion for a group like this.

Toby, I've really enjoyed your considered thoughts and views.

I am a committed(or should be) lover of old white burgundy, despite all of the issues. I still buy old, usually pre-96, bottles at auction where it tends to priced with the risk factor built in. I have bought a lot of Jobard and find them to be remarkable good in 96's and 98's. The en le barre has been my go to on the basis of price/value at around £30.

I've taken a few chances on random auction purchases, including some 1999 Boillot Bourgogne only a few years ago which perfectly encapsulated the discussion here. It was a humble Bourgogne, with 15+ years of age and yet had survived the poxiness but had aged superbly and transformed into the wonder that is old white burgundy. Cost me £4 per bottle.

I agree the problems are unbelievably frustrating and have experienced my own share of the pain, so won't buy new and won't buy at the GC level without the risk of pox included in the price and a willingness to have a lash but if you can except those caveats, there are some glorious wines to be experienced. I know that shouldn't be the case but c'est la vie.

As I write this, I am finishing off the last glass of the Au Bon Climat 2010 mentioned earlier and it tastes for all the world like an older white burgundy thought was only around £20 a bottle and carries no baggage. It has blossomed overnight and yet I would swap a bottle of this for Mike's Jobard in a heartbeat, which had the perfect acidity, precision and a savoury edge which is unmistakably white burgundy and with food became something entirely greater than the sum of its parts, which the ABC couldn't match.

I am just an unashamed lover of aged white burgundy and am prepared to search for those pleasures, though I cheat quite often with a new world mistress or two...

 

[Alex Lake]

I recall some Neudorf Moutere - 1998 - served at the 1998 naked/picnic offline “fooled”/impressed a few, but I didn’t like it, maybe because, knowing what it was, interpreted the “flabbiness” in a different way.

 

[Pietro Lizza]

My roots are in that region so I may be biased by I have had fantastic, consistent aged Fiano (and even a Falanghina by Mustilli recently which was beautiful). One of the best Fiano I have tried recently was “Pietra Incatenata Fiano 2014 Cilento by Luigi Maffini” still very young but showing some great potential. The 2004 is still drinking great now.

PS : I still appreciate, buy and drink white burgundy regularly but I think there are equally great white wines out there like my Campanian Fiano’s example

 

[Thom Blach]

A tip top Grivelet Meursault 76 last night, fresh, rich, complex, refreshing and nostalgic all at the same time and affirming yet again that the recipe really was different in those days.
A Nicos bottle, so no surprise!

 

[Mark Priestley]

My roots are in that region so I may be biased by I have had fantastic, consistent aged Fiano (and even a Falanghina by Mustilli recently which was beautiful). One of the best Fiano I have tried recently was “Pietra Incatenata Fiano 2014 Cilento by Luigi Maffini” still very young but showing some great potential. The 2004 is still drinking great now.

PS : I still appreciate, buy and drink white burgundy regularly but I think there are equally great white wines out there like my Campanian Fiano’s example

Love the Luigi Maffini wines and had the pleasure of meeting him a few years ago; for me I slightly prefer his Fiano "Kratos" cuvee to the Fiano "Pietraincatenata".

 

[Alex Lake]

Oh yes, that's lovely - I'd forgotten about that wine...