NWR Kitchen Thread

Interesting to read, most people seem very happy with their induction hobs and I have discounted my unhappy experiences because I am not accustomed to them.
Yep - I would never go back to gas. Agree with Tom G that that knobs make a huge difference. And you certainly can use woks. I have never owned a gas stove that gets a wok as hot as my induction hob does on full power. I confess that I never owned the sort of burners that you see in Chinese restaurants though!
 
Thanks; I am getting a quote on a Gaggenau fridge just to see what it's like, but am now leaning towards a Fisher and Paykel as a reasonable-sounding approach. I am not looking for bells and whistles on a fridge; the main aspects for me are simply that it reliably cools (reasonably quietly and efficiency) and that its cooling function and internal structures will last a good few years. I now plan to avoid a built-in one as it seems that the fridge is the appliance most likely to fail early whatever the brand

The Gaggenau 400 series induction cooktop available here does come with an independent manual control knob for each burner, one of the things I like about. it along with its purported quality and longevity.

The oven(s) will be electric. I am concerned about the quality and reliability of Wolf ovens now too, so back to the drawing board (including getting quotes on Gaggenau ovens)

Again, bearer of bad news on Fisher & Paykel... they are owned by Haier, a Chinese company that bought all kinds of "high-end" brands and through the magic of brand marketing can sell fancy looking junk at inflated prices. Even before the Haier acquisition, F&P quality and service was laughable... I had one of their Dacor ranges 25 years ago and it was falling apart after 3 years - they would claim abuse when you wanted warranty service. Viking/Wolf not much better sadly.

Won't find a fridge quieter than a Gaggenau, but there will be a whooshing sound with all of the money flying out of your wallet. I wouldn't say the one I have has many "extras" other than a motorised shelf and an ice maker, it just works and is maintenance free. If you are going to buy a F&P, may as well just buy a Haier because it is likely to have many of the same working bits... best part is when it breaks, you just buy another because they're not that expensive.
 
Yep - I would never go back to gas. Agree with Tom G that that knobs make a huge difference. And you certainly can use woks. I have never owned a gas stove that gets a wok as hot as my induction hob does on full power. I confess that I never owned the sort of burners that you see in Chinese restaurants though!

That is my main peeve with the ones I've used... central control of all burners, which is the bulk of them and all I've ever had experience with. When you say you can use woks on them, is it a special burner just for the wok or are you just using a flat bottomed wok that really defeats the purpose of using a wok in the first place? I've given up on wok cooking at home - you really do need one of those crazy industrial gas burners that is about 10x the thermal output of anything at home other than cooking using one outdoors with a propane tank that you probably need to refill after 10 minutes of use.
 
you really do need one of those crazy industrial gas burners that is about 10x the thermal output of anything at home other than cooking using one outdoors with a propane tank that you probably need to refill after 10 minutes of use.
I've got one of those. It needs a certain commitment but is good fun and the cylinder will last for most of the outdoor cooking season.
Induction wok burners do exist and some restaurants use them.
 
Again, bearer of bad news on Fisher & Paykel... they are owned by Haier, a Chinese company that bought all kinds of "high-end" brands and through the magic of brand marketing can sell fancy looking junk at inflated prices. Even before the Haier acquisition, F&P quality and service was laughable... I had one of their Dacor ranges 25 years ago and it was falling apart after 3 years - they would claim abuse when you wanted warranty service. Viking/Wolf not much better sadly.

Won't find a fridge quieter than a Gaggenau, but there will be a whooshing sound with all of the money flying out of your wallet. I wouldn't say the one I have has many "extras" other than a motorised shelf and an ice maker, it just works and is maintenance free. If you are going to buy a F&P, may as well just buy a Haier because it is likely to have many of the same working bits... best part is when it breaks, you just buy another because they're not that expensive.
We bought a Haier, partly based on recommendations from friends who own them, but also because I legit love the brand. Three reasons:

1 - The name itself. They formed a JV with forum-favourite wine fridge manufacturer Liebherr, and the "Haier" bit was how the second syllable was transliterated into Chinese. Doesn't say anything good about the fridge, I suppose, but a lovely little nerdy language fact.
2 - A really early example the improvements in quality of Chinese manufacturing. The now-CEO made splashes when he got a sledgehammer and destroyed defective fridges in front of his employees - at a time when they were incredibly expensive and rare in China. Hard not to admire that pioneering spirit.
3 - Headquartered in Qingdao, the city which is home to the forum's favourite beer.

I also actually quite like the trend of brands being bought by the people who manufacture the products - it seems neater somehow. Semi-related - one of my favourite business stories of the past few years is the case of Segway, manufacturer of the slightly-less-revolutionary-than-people-thought-they-might-be personal transport devices who tried to sue a Chinese manufacturer who they believed to be infringing on their intellectual property. The Chinese company in question realised that it would just be cheaper to buy Segway and make the problem disappear... Chinese rival firm Ninebot buys Segway
 
Won't find a fridge quieter than a Gaggenau, but there will be a whooshing sound with all of the money flying out of your wallet.
Yes, we got the quote today! I definitely can't afford one ("if you have to ask, you can't afford it"). I got quotes on a range of Gaggenau appliances. Some things seem outlandishly priced (e.g., steam oven), some (e.g., induction cooktop) not too far off potentially comparable brands (e.g., Miele). I am pretty much set on the Gaggenau cooktop (the 400 model does have separate manual knob controls for each ring). For the rest, I am still undecided. We have had great experiences with Miele dishwashers and I see that their excellent 10 year optional warranty extension is available for all their appliances so am tempted to go with Miele with all the others simply due to peace of mind for 10 years. However, the Miele ovens are as highly-priced as the Gaggenau products. I have yet to look at Bosch products.

I can't justify the cost of a Miele or Gaggenau steam oven, and don't yet know on the cost/reliability of other brands. But probably the same amazingly high pricing, and I expect the same outcome on warming drawers too. I can always put a pan of water in the oven for some moisture and have made it this far without ever thinking "if only I had a warming drawer"

The warranty on Wolf and Sub-Zero looks very good (15 years on parts), so I asked for quotes on their stuff too - which have just arrived. Surprisingly they are more expensive than Gaggenau on almost everything. All in all then, it looks like I might go with a "basic" Gaggenau or Miele double-oven, which I can afford if I drop the steam oven and warming drawers, which are wants rather than "needs". That and a slide-in/free-standing reasonably priced fridge so that when it does break down it will be easier to repair/replace (and I note that Haier is available here).

Edit: I now see that the Miele double oven does include a steam function as standard anyway
 
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Yes, we got the quote today! I definitely can't afford one ("if you have to ask, you can't afford it"). I got quotes on a range of Gaggenau appliances. Some things seem outlandishly priced (e.g., steam oven), some (e.g., induction cooktop) not too far off potentially comparable brands (e.g., Miele). I am pretty much set on the Gaggenau cooktop (the 400 model does have separate manual knob controls for each ring). For the rest, I am still undecided. We have had great experiences with Miele dishwashers and I see that their excellent 10 year optional warranty extension is available for all their appliances so am tempted to go with Miele with all the others simply due to peace of mind for 10 years. However, the Miele ovens are as highly-priced as the Gaggenau products. I have yet to look at Bosch products.

I can't justify the cost of a Miele or Gaggenau steam oven, and don't yet know on the cost/reliability of other brands. But probably the same amazingly high pricing, and I expect the same outcome on warming drawers too. I can always put a pan of water in the oven for some moisture and have made it this far without ever thinking "if only I had a warming drawer"

The warranty on Wolf and Sub-Zero looks very good (15 years on parts), so I asked for quotes on their stuff too - which have just arrived. Surprisingly they are more expensive than Gaggenau on almost everything. All in all then, it looks like I might go with a "basic" Gaggenau or Miele double-oven, which I can afford if I drop the steam oven and warming drawers, which are wants rather than "needs". That and a slide-in/free-standing reasonably priced fridge so that when it does break down it will be easier to repair/replace (and I note that Haier is available here).

Edit: I now see that the Miele double oven does include a steam function as standard anyway

I feel your pain on the Gaggenau stuff, must be even more horrific in Canada as well. Miele makes great dishwashers, but Bosch are of the same quality and cheaper because they don't fix their prices the same way Miele does (should be illegal and probably is in many countries). We have Miele ovens now (electric with steam injection, also combi steam oven and warming drawer), they are pretty good for electric ovens available in the UK but again, overpriced. No experience with Gaggenau equivalents but based on my fridge, that I would clearly marry, the ovens are probably better as well.

Seems like Wolf/SubZero has ostensibly upped their game on warranty, but read the fine print. 15 years on PARTS only... you might have to pay labour 3-4x over the "life" of the product and you aren't having things serviced at the Kia dealership, they will tell you that it is a Bugatti and the service rate is CAD250/hr, the book rate is 6hrs to change a compressor and recharge it (which you will also pay for because the coolant isn't a part, but a consumable and they will charge you to purge and dispose of the old gas too). In reality this will happen in an hour and a half, but the book rate is 6hrs x 250/hr + incidentals... bend over!

Warming drawers you probably don't need if you have 2 ovens already, I wouldn't buy one again. They can be good to rest meat if your other 2 ovens are busy, but realistically you can just put a foil tent over it and put your serving plates in one of the other ovens while you are waiting for the protein to rest. Combi oven is a bit of a luxury, you don't need it if you have an oven with steam injection, but sometimes it is nice to control the precise humidity and create programs that create reliable results for certain things (ie: fowl - steam to render fat, then dry heat to crisp skin).

I used to make my living importing Chinese product into Canada and I will tell you that Haier was absolutely everywhere. They made their name selling somewhat reliable commodity product to the far east ex-Japan, basically the Uniqlo of household appliances, quality the same.

Jealous of your "proper induction setup". Our Spanish home so recently renovated and while nice, all of these little niggles drive me insane. Best of luck.
 
2 - A really early example the improvements in quality of Chinese manufacturing. The now-CEO made splashes when he got a sledgehammer and destroyed defective fridges in front of his employees - at a time when they were incredibly expensive and rare in China. Hard not to admire that pioneering spirit.
This. It is really why they were successful. They have been a quality leader in China for many years. It reminds me someone of the Korean "GoldStar" rebranding to LG... take really shit product company, change name and make decent mass market products rather than garbage.
 
I think it’s a fairly simple problem to solve.

Ovens - Gaggenau
Fridge and Freezer - Liebherr or Gagg
Cooktop - Gagg or Bora (both do knobs)
Dishwasher - Miele

I find it hard to disagree with this, but it is not a simple problem if they do not make financial sense to someone.

Wine, easy:
Burgundy - DRC, Rousseau, Roumier, Ente, Coche
Bordeaux - Petrus, VCC, Haut Brion, Margaux, Latour
Loire - Rougeard, Vatan, Dagueneau, Boudignon
Italy - G. Conterno, Soldera

Simples.
 
We’ve had various Bosch appliances over the years and they’ve all been absolutely faultless. They may not have the cachet of some of the names mentioned above but they’ve all been well-priced, good in operation and utterly reliable.
 
Bora doesn't seem to be sold in Canada, unfortunately, but the Gaggeanu cooktop looks good.

I do like the features of the Miele oven as it can add spurts of steam whenever desired. Looks like a choice between that and the Gaggenau for the oven (very similar prices)

We have been very happy with Miele dishwashers, so will continue using them

The fridge will not be Gaggenau or Liebherr. They look amazing, but so is their pricing!
 
Why don't people look at catering equipment, especially for things like fridges? I understand that pro ranges would be huge.
A decent catering fridge has huge capacity, not expensive, relatively simple and is on wheels so easy to clean around it. We have an ancient secondhand example, which works very well.
Though since it took three NZ rugger players to get it downstairs it's staying when we move.
 
My experience of Liebherr fridge/freezers is not entirely positive. Recommended by our architect, our first one gave up the ghost after about 8-9 years (some sort of pump failure, I think). For some reason, we bought another similar model.
- One of the door mouldings that keeps the shelves in place has sheared off. Very annoying and un-repairable
- Every now and then the internal water drain blocks and needs unblocking with a piece of wire
- The freezer compartment handle tends to come off in your hand if a clumsy teenager pulls it too hard

Not the quality you'd expect for the price.
 
I think it’s a fairly simple problem to solve.

Ovens - Gaggenau
I have got a final list of appliances ready (subject to taking a look at them physically in the showroom) but am still stuck on the oven choice. Both the Miele and the Gaggenau full size double ovens look great and they are pretty much the same price here.

The Miele warranty is much better than Gaggenau's. Other than that the main differences seem to be:
- Miele goes to a slightly higher temperature (300C as opposed to 285C)
- Miele has a plumbed in connection for steam injection (but I hope to get a combi-steam oven as well anyway)
- Gaggenau control interface looks to be a bit more in tune with how I think about things)
- Gaggenau offers an extra plug-in element for heating a pizza stone rom beneath
- Gaggenau offers more fine control over which elements are providing heat (proportional control of top and bottom elements are possible)
- Gaggenau has a rotisserie accessory (which I doubt I would use very much, but would be interesting now and again)

Is there a significant difference in quality? I am leaning towards the Gaggenau, but wondering if I would get more use from the Miele's steam injector for bread and higher temperature for pizza.
 
Interesting. My gagg oven goes to 300 - and I do use it quite a bit for pizza. Wonder why they’ve regressed to 285?

Are you looking at the 400 series?

I went for Gaggenau as I wanted the extra width (76cm) and it was the only double oven I could find bigger than 60. Miele only offered 60 or 90 - and I wasn’t convinced by the Miele 90 option (or its price for what you got - which was a single oven).
 
The Gagg is what I have. It's excellent. Heats up to 300 degrees.

I don't think the Miele one is available in the UK...so I don't know much about it. I was looking at the single Miele 90cm ovens....until I was persuaded by Leon M that I needed eleventeen ovens. He was right.
 
Can only imagine the size of the cable connecting a big induction hob to the power supply in North America... With 110v they will draw a massive current.
There is usually 300something volts coming into the house - the kitchen appliances get more volts than the plug sockets. It’s surprisingly common for fancy USAian kitchens to have some ~240v sockets to support the fancy imported espresso machine or whatever.
 
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