NWR new zero tolerance covid thread

Because why else are you worried about the unvaccinated?

If you're concerned that they will overwhelm hospitals then mandatory diets, mandatory exercise or other mandatory lifestyle changes would have a bigger impact on the NHS than mandatory vaccination, especially given the number of unvaccinated is quite small. Also bear in mind the number of hospitalisations has been dropping for some time and is not out of kilter with respiratory virus hospitalisations for this time of year.

Perhaps we should make life difficult for those who are overweight? Refuse to serve them any dish over a certain number of calories? Only allow them water in restaurants and no alcohol or fizzy drinks?

If you're concerned about getting it yourself then you're just as likely to get it from somebody who has been vaccinated as you are from somebody who hasn't. The vaccines protect you, but somebody who isn't vaccinated is no more dangerous to you than somebody who is.

And if you're worried on their behalf about them dying, well frankly that's their choice and their risk.
If you could point me to the website where I can get my appointment for my 30 second diet that will massively reduce my risk of being hospitalised this winter I'd be grateful.
 
In fairness the vaccinations last a bit longer than 30 seconds!
I was being facetious of course. I have sympathy with what you're saying, the state of our public health is really poor although the government does use various carrots and sticks to encourage us in the right direction, not enough in my view

I'm a pragmatist really and think that jabbing everyone seems the quickest, cheapest way of keeping people out of hospital. It wouldn't bother me at all if it were mandatory.
 
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I was being facetious of course.

As was I!

I do see other sides of the arguments but I do think a lot of people speak from a position of fear rather than facts, and it’s odd that certain people see any viewpoint that differs from their own as trolling. There are plenty of MPs who are already speaking out against Plan B and it looks like the government is going to come under increasing pressure.

Let’s see.
 

Tom Cannavan

Administrator
On Lanzarote and noted an update available for the NHS Scotland Covid Status app, which I will need when time to travel home. Having updated it, "Covid Status not valid" is the only message it will display, where it used to list my jabs and dates. Have reinstalled 3 times and still the same.

Thank god I downloaded and printed a paper copy of my Status as a back up before leaving home, otherwise this would be rather stressful. God love the IT systems of the NHS.
 
God love the IT systems of the NHS.
I've been impressed with how often my NHS app has worked, and with how little effort from myself.

I confess my expectations had only to o'erleap a low bar. Last year my 12 year old NHS computer took about ten minutes to boot up Windows 7, and another on my ward had a floppy disk drive.

5 and a quarter inch.
 

Tom Cannavan

Administrator
I've been impressed with how often my NHS app has worked, and with how little effort from myself.

I confess my expectations had only to o'erleap a low bar. Last year my 12 year old NHS computer took about ten minutes to boot up Windows 7, and another on my ward had a floppy disk drive.

5 and a quarter inch.

Oh, they've moved on from the 8 inch floppy disks. Bravo! :)

I learned my trade on punch tape, then punch cards, in the 80s. How far we've come.
 
If you come into contact with a randomly selected person who has been double-vaccinated, the chances of catching Covid off that person is much less than if you come into contact with someone who hasn't. The main and clearest reason is that the people who have not been double-vaccinated are far more likely to be infected. Note that majority of the UK population HAS been double vaccinated, and yet the ABSOLUTE numbers of new infections in that group is significantly less, so the difference in probablity of those random people being infected is a lot greater than the obvious visual differences in the figure below.

20211210T022428.png

Additionally, I believe those who test positive and are double vaccinated will have a less severe disease, and thus be less likely to pass the virus on than someone who has not been double-vaccinated.

I also have a sneaky feeling that there is a correlation between refusal to get vaccinated and refusal to wear a mask.
 
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What is interesting about this piece is the commentary underneath. I know it's a heavily self-selected group but it does seem to me that crackpottery has become endemic.
 

What is interesting about this piece is the commentary underneath. I know it's a heavily self-selected group but it does seem to me that crackpottery has become endemic.

BTL comments are rarely representative as it takes effort and extremes of emotion to post and engage. I’m fairly sure you won’t have seen the comments below Facebook posts from news organisations but if anything they might be worse than DM BTL. Which are usually spectacular examples of the genre.
 
What is interesting about this piece is the commentary underneath. I know it's a heavily self-selected group but it does seem to me that crackpottery has become endemic.
It's also interesting how a moderate and well-reasoned piece is misrepresented by an inflammatory headline. "Never mind about the arguments, let's just get people yelling at each other"
 
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Because why else are you worried about the unvaccinated?

If you're concerned that they will overwhelm hospitals then mandatory diets, mandatory exercise or other mandatory lifestyle changes would have a bigger impact on the NHS than mandatory vaccination, especially given the number of unvaccinated is quite small. Also bear in mind the number of hospitalisations has been dropping for some time and is not out of kilter with respiratory virus hospitalisations for this time of year.
I think that this argument ignores the fact that under normal circumstances, hospitals aren't overwhelmed by people with lifestyle-related medical issues. This is in contrast to the current situation where the unvaccinated are putting incredible strain on the system - in some cases leading to the deaths of vaccinated people from treatable conditions because they can't access the NHS because of all those sick unvaccinated people. I don't want to get into the stats about hospital numbers falling etc because I don't know the details, but I do think that comparing lifestyle-choice hospitalisations to hospitalisations of the unvaccinated is an apples and oranges situation.
 
I think that this argument ignores the fact that under normal circumstances, hospitals aren't overwhelmed by people with lifestyle-related medical issues. This is in contrast to the current situation where the unvaccinated are putting incredible strain on the system - in some cases leading to the deaths of vaccinated people from treatable conditions because they can't access the NHS because of all those sick unvaccinated people. I don't want to get into the stats about hospital numbers falling etc because I don't know the details, but I do think that comparing lifestyle-choice hospitalisations to hospitalisations of the unvaccinated is an apples and oranges situation.

Geordie I would respectfully (and totally & utterly) disagree - the NHS is absolutely overwhelmed with people with lifestyle-related medical issues.

Only 36% of Covid hospitalisations in the UK are unvaccinated and the total numbers in hospital for Covid are not out of kilter for respiratory viruses for this time of year anyway.

Now that may change with Omicron, but so far it seems that most cases are mild so there is no current data to suggest it will overwhelm the NHS.
 
The lifestyle argument seems to me pretty shameful. It stems from the position that when people become ill it is their own 'fault' , which is clearly patent nonsense in 99.9% of cases, it being down of course to longevity and the luck of the draw. Should sports be banned because of the relatively high level of injuries sustained in their pursuit?
The idea sometimes propagated by those with different afflictions that the seriously overweight or the addicted are that way from free choice is born of the most colossal ignorance and lack of life experience.
 
And from the ONS;

Almost 1 in 50 people in the UK living with long COVID​

2 December 2021​

Around 1.2 million people living in private households in the UK were experiencing self-reported long COVID as of 31 October 2021.

This is around 1.9% of the population and almost 1 in 50 people. This number was roughly the same as it was on 2 October 2021.
 
Is long Covid basically the same thing as the common post-viral syndromes that can result from many other viral infections, or is it something different and Covid-specific?

It's not intended to be a leading question - I have no idea.
It appears to be a bit of both, but in what proportion I have no idea. Some aspects of long covid are completely different to more standard post-viral fatigue.
 
If that 2007 paper's conclusions are sound, having obese people in our close social/kinship groups makes us less more likely to follow suit by reducing our intolerance of it.
Yes; it seems to me that this is correct. I feel that you do indeed get used to your surroundings and perceptions of what "normal" body sizes are. After living in Canada for a few years, I made my first trip to Rome about 20 years ago, and was shocked at how most people appeared to me to be almost anorexic. After a few days I realized that that was normal. I was then horrified on my return to Canada at what seemed to be rampant obesity. But again, after a short period, it all seemed normal.
 
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Is long Covid basically the same thing as the common post-viral syndromes that can result from many other viral infections, or is it something different and Covid-specific?
A very good question, for which we clearly can't claim to have a certain answer.

Personally, I think long covid is an unhelpful term that reifies something in a misleading fashion. I think it covers post viral syndrome, typically seen in the younger and healthier and whose covid was less severe, and then the organ specific damage seen in those whose primary infection was close to fatal. I don't think either category includes phenomena not seen in other infections, nor needs to. Nor does saying that one is seeing phenomena seen with other infections in any way imply these things are somehow not real or not serious. That they might be more extreme or more common with exposure to a new virus is perfectly reasonable.
 
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