NWR new zero tolerance covid thread

My sister and my brother in law are pharmacists in the Loire and received their AZ doses last week to administer to patients.
On Friday, they vaccinated a 70 years old lady with conditions. She passed away yesterday as it seems she did not take well the vaccine. This is indeed a very rare case... but it is a different story when you know well the person and have injected her 2 days earlier... My brother in law is a bit shocked... We got our AZ jab and are allright.
Our neighbour, a British lady, told her yesterday she would not get vaccinated (around 60) as she has allergies and is scared...
Is there medical proof that side effects of vaccination were the cause of death, or is this merely supposition? Correlation does not imply causation.

Frankly, given the dire situation France finds itself in given the huge rise in the number of cases, more effort should be going into persuading the population to get vaccinated rather than frightening them. The French health system is in danger of being overwhelmed, hence a third national lockdown is likely and may be announced this evening.
 
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The current issue in France is supply not demand.

My in laws (70-75) spent many hours checking the 20 or so nearest vaccination centres before finding available appointments.

But 8m with one dose and nearly 3m with two is not enough.

My parents were in the same position, waiting weeks for local supply to made available in the Loire. The French system appears to be very disjointed, random and largely dysfunctional compared to that in the UK.
 
So, I had Astra Zeneca with basically zero reaction to it. My brother in law also had AZ and was floored for two days with flu-like symptoms.

I don't really understand the physiological reasons why one person has no reaction and another is impacted quite badly by the vaccine, but is it too simplistic to suggest that if both of us caught covid, we would have relatively similar reactions - his would be more severe than mine?
 
I've been eligible for the vaccine for several weeks now but had been dithering about getting an appointment. Last Friday we were walking to a local supermarket when my partner convinced me to walk past a local pharmacy. I had walked by the pharmacy once before but the counters were busy enough that I walked out. This time there was nobody there so I approached the counter. One of the pharmacists walked over and I noticed that his name tag read 'Mahmoud'. I told him that I had the same name and the same spelling.

I then told him that I had been eligible for the vaccine for several weeks now but had been procrastinating. I inquired about the vaccine schedules and whether I had to register online or to call to make and appointment. He said "You can have one right now if you want. I have two extra doses." I was caught off guard and at first hesitated. Then, thinking about what it would mean if I said no, that I wasn't opposed to vaccines and there really wasn't a better vaccine than the Pfizer on the horizon, there would be no purpose in delaying any further, I filled in the papers, rolled up my sleeve and got vaccinated. In essence Mahmoud vaccinated Mahmoud. I thought to myself it must have been fate.

After the obligatory 15 minute wait, which we spent wandering the aisles, we walked to the supermarket. The next day I had a bit of soreness in the upper arm where I got the vaccine but nothing more.

Cheers .......................................... Mahmoud.
 
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So, I had Astra Zeneca with basically zero reaction to it. My brother in law also had AZ and was floored for two days with flu-like symptoms.

I don't really understand the physiological reasons why one person has no reaction and another is impacted quite badly by the vaccine, but is it too simplistic to suggest that if both of us caught covid, we would have relatively similar reactions - his would be more severe than mine?
SWMBO and myself had AZ on the evening 16 Feb. I felt a bit tired the following day, while my wife was laid low with headachy flu-like symptoms for 48 hours. Second doses scheduled one month today.
 
Would the mooted 'covid passport' mean the compulsory purchase of a mobile telephone? I do not particularly object to the notion of showing a card but do not think I deserve enforced hermitude.
 
2nd AZ vaccine on Tuesday...very slight light-headedness Wednesday a.m., 1 paracetamol and symptoms gone, today fine. This compares for me with three days feeling under the weather for the 1st jab, the anecdotal word from the jabber at the vaccine centre to this jabbee was that the second jab seems to be producing less symptoms.

I very much doubt that there are any anti-vaxxers on this site but I am still getting ridiculously false Whatsapp and e-mail messages from French relatives and friends...I feel like telling them all to get the f***ing jab ffs but it's easier and far less stressful, like Cordelia, to "love and be silent"....
 
I very much doubt that there are any anti-vaxxers on this site but I am still getting ridiculously false Whatsapp and e-mail messages from French relatives and friends...I feel like telling them all to get the f***ing jab ffs but it's easier and far less stressful, like Cordelia, to "love and be silent"....
I have a French friend who is regaling Facebook with misinformation about Covid vaccines. Some of her posts have been blocked by Facebook, about which she has been noisily indignant. She seems to be a bit of an anti-vaxxer in general. For my own sanity, I sometimes post what I regard as rational counter-narratives which she ignores.
 
Is there medical proof that side effects of vaccination were the cause of death, or is this merely supposition? Correlation does not imply causation.

Frankly, given the dire situation France finds itself in given the huge rise in the number of cases, more effort should be going into persuading the population to get vaccinated rather than frightening them. The French health system is in danger of being overwhelmed, hence a third national lockdown is likely and may be announced this evening.
It's not as simple as that Ed, despite what the British media say.
Vaccine scepticism is pretty high in France, a result of botched vaccination campaigns in the past and a general sense of natural-is-best. The main source of scare-stories and doubt are the newspapers, which tend to be more anti-government and anti-establishment than the British ones. The French government have been trying to spread the message that the vaccines are safe and that the only way out of this is mass vaccination but they know that propaganda and forcefulness will not work. They will just make more people suspicious which risks throwing the vaccination program into chaos. It is already hampered by a lack of supply (which I will stay away from because of the zero-tolerance rule) and the disparate nature of the French healthcare system, which is very good but disjointed. It has, however, managed to keep up with all the other health issues that people have, rather than putting them on the back-burner until the vaccination program is done.

We who understand statistics get that the risk of dying from a clot is hundreds of times lower than getting Covid. However, the personal choice is complicated. If you knew of someone who died shortly after taking the AZ vaccine but you don't know anyone who has died from Covid, that will overrule the stats. If you consider yourself young and healthy, or you think you have already had Covid, you might be willing to wait and see how the blood clot story pans out before rushing off for your jab.

What seems to be happening now in France, certainly with the AZ vaccine, is that doctors and pharmacists are giving jabs to those who go out of their way to demand one, rather than sticking to the age-priorities stated by the government because so many people are either not turning up or taking up the medics time being gently persuaded. Compared the the UK it looks a mess but its a mess caused by the media and the beliefs of people, not by Macron.

My mum who lives with us has had both her Pfizer jabs. I would guess that my wife and I will get ours (whatever brand) in the next 4 weeks. The lockdown is painful but in reality it is even now less confining that the restrictions in the UK 2 weeks ago.
 
its a mess caused by the media and the beliefs of people, not by Macron
I agree with the thrust of what you say Jonathan, but surely Macron of all people should have factored in the French context, rather than allowing himself to be quoted as saying the AZ vaccine is ineffective even when it was obvious there was a general supply problem - and that was only weeks ago
 
Australia has announced that its following some EU countries and recommending not to use AZ for anyone under 50. Obviously there is no Covid here to speak of so there are no real consequences to society for waiting for more doses of vaccines that don’t have any side effects. Not sure what I will do if I get offered the chance to take the AZ. The chance of a side effect may be small, but the chance of me getting Covid is tiny and I can’t see any reason to chance it if there is a safer alternative on the way.
 
The big 'danger' must surely be the 9 million 18 - 29 year-olds who are so far not vaccinated, now taking a very reasonable decision (on one level) not to have any vaccine, thus potentially keeping the R much higher than it might be.
 
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