Not quite the end of civilisation as cheap white Burgundy triumphs

Alistair Scott · Jan 10, 2019

Without wishing to pre-empt the wisdom and analysis of TC, interesting how significant cheaper white burgundy is in the 'Budget White' category of Wines of the Year - lots of Aligote but some Macons and BB too. Quality up? Or drinking getting more diversified? Would previous years have been dominated by BB, Chablis etc?

Mark Carrington · Jan 10, 2019

Outrageously, mine cost a fiver. Where’s the smug icon, when you need it.

Anthony Taylor · Jan 10, 2019

I was a late comer to white burgundy, arriving in the teeth of prem-ox, however I've been happily drinking large amounts of white burgundy from the lower tiers of the hierarchy for the last few years. Indeed I'm currently romping my way through a Pierre Morey BB 2015 which is providing surprising amounts of pleasure.

Mark Carrington · Jan 10, 2019

It makes me smile when people bemoan current prices of white Burgundy. With careful sleuthing value can be found.
Pierre Morey produces smart wines.
I concede that DRC Le Montrachet & Coche-Dury Corton-Charlemagne are a tad expensive.

Paul Anderson · Jan 10, 2019

I've had the Michel's Viré-Clessés (previously Mâcon-Clessé) in the 'budget white' category most years since the WotY started.

Also, having been stung big time by poxed white Burgs, I have begun dipping my toe in the water again, mainly buying at the cheaper end for drinking young.

Mark Gough · Jan 10, 2019

Mark Carrington said:
It makes me smile when people bemoan current prices of white Burgundy. With careful sleuthing value can be found.
Pierre Morey produces smart wines.
I concede that DRC Le Montrachet & Coche-Dury Corton-Charlemagne are a tad expensive.

Totally agree 100% re value. In addition to B Blanc (a 2015 at €8 bought Nov '18) and Aligote (two different one's at €6.50 & €8 also bought Nov '18) there's plenty of sleuthing value also in Cremant de Bourgogne if one fancies some fizz. To pre-empt Mr Bennett

there's incredible value & not a little quality more & more evident from the Cote Chalonnaise.

Totally agree2 re Pierre Morey re whom I'm on record on this Forum as referring to as one of my favourite producers over many years.

Mark Priestley · Jan 10, 2019

Well Gote is a lot more interesting that people give it credit for and it certainly works from a pricing point of view. Seems that more producers are happy to promote their Aligote than before as well; would be interested to know why this has changed.

Thom Blach · Jan 10, 2019

Mark Carrington said:
It makes me smile when people bemoan current prices of white Burgundy. With careful sleuthing value can be found.

Good value white wine, certainly. Proper white burgundy that tastes of white burgundy and not chardonnay is a very great deal more difficult even when paying quite a lot.

Mark Priestley said:
Aligoté is a lot more interesting than people give it credit for and it certainly works from a pricing point of view.

At similar price levels the aligoté is nearly always the better choice , at least for me.

David Crossley · Jan 10, 2019

Like many here I have been drinking so much more Aligoté than ever before. Is it so vastly improved? Yes, no doubt about it.

I remember Aligoté in the 1980s and it was usually characterised by excess acidity rarely matched (well, in Gros Plant). It was cheap, but acidic.

Something seems to have happened. I mean Coche Dury Aligoté is still acidic, but you just need to keep it twenty years. But good Aligoté does seem to have something extra these days. For me that something is quite exciting, but I can’t always define exactly what it is.

When it comes to Chardonnay it is also remarkable how wines from the fringes have come on. Macon and the Auxerrois, for example. But what I think might begin knocking at the door in 2019, if gently at first, is Beaujolais Blanc.

Michael Warner · Jan 10, 2019

Am I the only one who is being turned off Aligote because it is becoming too fat and flabby ?

David Crossley · Jan 10, 2019

Michael Warner said:
Am I the only one who is being turned off Aligote because it is becoming too fat and flabby ?

I don’t like it fat and flabby. My criticism of 1980s acidity levels should be seen in context. Even Chardonnay had acidity back then, before it became fat in the 90s (the pendulum swings). Aligoté needs acidity, but not at battery acid levels.

I still rate the Du Grappin Aligoté as having a near perfect profile in balancing acidity and “gras”.

Mahmoud Ali · Jan 10, 2019

Mark Gough said:
... there's plenty of sleuthing value also in Cremant de Bourgogne if one fancies some fizz ...

I quite agree, an older bottle of Cave de Lugny Cremant Rosé (2012 bottling) was my pick for rosé of the year and for just under £10 could easily qualify for a budget rosé category. The fizz was beginning to dissipate but there was plenty of mouse in the mouth.

Mark Carrington · Jan 10, 2019

Thom Blach said:
Good value white wine, certainly. Proper white burgundy that tastes of white burgundy and not chardonnay is a very great deal more difficult even when paying quite a lot.

At similar price levels the aligoté is nearly always the better choice , at least for me.

All credit to you Tom, you’ve been banging on about the quality of Aligoté for a number of years. I eventually took notice.
It is now time that us enthusiasts (includes some others here) STFU (shut up). The growers have identified this is a prospective cash cow. Eventually I will be shut out of the market. In the meantime, let’s enjoy the ride.
As for what constitutes proper white (Chardonnay) Burgundy? I suspect we’re poles apart.

Matt Butler · Jan 10, 2019

Mark Carrington said:
All credit to you Tom, you’ve been banging on about the quality of Aligoté for a number of years. I eventually took notice.
It is now time that us enthusiasts (includes some others here) STFU (shut up). The growers have identified this is a prospective cash cow. Eventually I will be shut out of the market. In the meantime, let’s enjoy the ride.
As for what constitutes proper white (Chardonnay) Burgundy? I suspect we’re poles apart.

I thought the 2017 Paul Pillot Aligoté more than held its own when tried alongside its chardonnay comrades.

I've often seen it remarked that Aligoté is a grape to be drunk young, but I'd love to hear peoples opinions and/or experiences when it comes to aged Aligoté.

Thom Blach · Jan 11, 2019

Michael Warner said:
Am I the only one who is being turned off Aligote because it is becoming too fat and flabby ?

I hate it like that but I haven't come across it often. The worst offender for me is the De Villaine Bouzeron which I think is pretty horrible but I suspect it's just me, others much more discriminating than I enjoy it. As with Chardonnay obvious oak is by no means the enemy here.

Mark Carrington said:
As for what constitutes proper white (Chardonnay) Burgundy? I suspect we’re poles apart.

I can't describe it very well but I know it when I see it; which is not often these days, at least as much to do with not opening bottles as not finding any to open.

David Crossley · Jan 11, 2019

Majestic sold the De Villaine in the 1990s and back then it seemed one of the least acidic. Perhaps that is why everyone came out with that line that it was the best. Perhaps (I’ve not drunk it for years) it has stayed as relatively less acidic as others as that Aligoté acidity has diminished all round?

Jeremy Caan · Jan 11, 2019

Of a recent six-pack of Long-Depaquit Chablis Moutonne GC 2011 two bottles were good, one was ok, three were moderately poxed and devoid of interest. I used to love white Burgundy.

Mike Holliday · Jan 12, 2019

Matt Butler said:
I thought the 2017 Paul Pillot Aligoté more than held its own when tried alongside its chardonnay comrades.

I've often seen it remarked that Aligoté is a grape to be drunk young, but I'd love to hear peoples opinions and/or experiences when it comes to aged Aligoté.

Just tried that at the Davy's tasting and decided to ask for a case!

Matt Butler · Jan 12, 2019

Mike Holliday said:
Just tried that at the Davy's tasting and decided to ask for a case!

I was also milling around at Davys so hello again in case we have already met

Pleased to see someone else thought the aligote was of merit. I didn't grab some myself, part of me was concerned my palate was just enjoying the change after trying 20 odd chardonnays. However i noticed that hedonism has bottles of 2014-2016 so might pick one up and see if im still a fan. Have you tried the other vintages? Also was there any other white, potentially on the cheaper end to keep it OT, you though was particularly good on the night (or in general)?

Mike Holliday · Jan 12, 2019

Annoyingly I found the whites (leaving aside the Aligote, of course) did generally show better as they got more expensive...
Looking at my notes I liked the Rully Blanc from Borgeot, though as that was a 2016 slipped in for comparison it could just be the extra maturity. I also liked their Bourgogne Blanc - more than the one from Laroze de Drouhin in fact - so that would probably be my value choice.

Thom Blach · Jan 12, 2019

Tonight, on its fourth night open, PYCM 2016 is quite sensational, as good even as an Ente example,discreet but intense and almost painfully transparent purity with not a hint of the slightly ugly melon this grape can produce. For me a kind of perfection. I'd be amazed if with age it didn't become even more inspiring, I've honestly not had many Montrachets as good.

Matt Butler · Jan 13, 2019

Mike Holliday said:
Annoyingly I found the whites (leaving aside the Aligote, of course) did generally show better as they got more expensive...
Looking at my notes I liked the Rully Blanc from Borgeot, though as that was a 2016 slipped in for comparison it could just be the extra maturity. I also liked their Bourgogne Blanc - more than the one from Laroze de Drouhin in fact - so that would probably be my value choice.

If my notes and memory are to be believed, I found the Bachelet-Monnot Santenay as well as both the La Perriere and Les Puillets from Chateau de Chamilly to be rather agreeable.

Thom Blach said:
Tonight, on its fourth night open, PYCM 2016 is quite sensational, as good even as an Ente example,discreet but intense and almost painfully transparent purity with not a hint of the slightly ugly melon this grape can produce. For me a kind of perfection. I'd be amazed if with age it didn't become even more inspiring, I've honestly not had many Montrachets as good.

Such high praise! I think based on this and other comments in this thread I'll try to grab a bottle of both the 2015 and 16 and report back

Mike Holliday · Jan 13, 2019

I also found the Bachelet-Monnot Santenay agreeable, but at the same price for 6 rather than a dozen...

Mark Carrington · Jan 13, 2019

Thom Blach said:
Tonight, on its fourth night open, PYCM 2016 is quite sensational, as good even as an Ente example,discreet but intense and almost painfully transparent purity with not a hint of the slightly ugly melon this grape can produce. For me a kind of perfection. I'd be amazed if with age it didn't become even more inspiring, I've honestly not had many Montrachets as good.

I assume you’re referring to BB, Tom? I was rather underwhelmed by it six months ago.
Distinctive struck match note, assertive acidity, boney, narrow. Lacks presence. Should age but will it fill out? 87 points
On a positive note, I’ve three more.

Thom Blach · Jan 13, 2019

No, Aligoté. It needed a huge amount of air to show itself.