PYCM drinking question

I started buying with the 17 vintage and have as of yesterday pulled out a few bottles of the BB to form an opinion....

Any views on when to begin on the reds? I have been acquiring examples of each of his Volnay 1er crus since 17. Naturally inclined to wait...
 
Dan Baillie said:
Never had one poxed or heard of one.
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I've had a couple that were spoiled, but more luck of the draw than anything systemic I guess. Both Meursault Perrieres, I think 07 and 13 but I may be wrong.
I very much enjoy PYCM's proselytising on behalf of 'natural' cork though I do not find it 100% convincing.
 
Richard Zambuni said:
I'm about to get some PYCM out of storage, but the question is which vintage should I pull the trigger on - I have all the vintages between 2014 and 2019. The wines are a mixture of Saint Aubin and Santenay 1er crus. I was thinking perhaps 2014 and 2017, but does anyone have other ideas?
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I would cast a vote for waiting on all of these, honestly.

2015s from my cellar are youthful (most recently a 2015 Le Banc which was just beginning to open structurally), and I remember PY thought it would be a very long-lived vintage when we tasted it together from barrel, citing high levels of structuring extract from thick skins and correct pHs, as well as the wines' resistance to oxidation when left in an open container for a number of days.

2015-2017 were also his first vintages in his new cellars, which are cooler and he has found that the wines retain high levels of free sulfur as a result. He thinks that he didn't sufficiently adjust his sulfur addition program to take that into account and the wines were all really tight out of the gates compared to how they showed from barrel. This won't be a problem for the long haul but unless you like drinking your white Burgundy when it's very shy, tight, and matchstick-inflected, these are not years I would be lining up for near-term consumption.

If you ever consider backfilling, I might look for 2013, which Pierre-Yves handled really well, and which is beginning to open up very nicely. The Caillerets and Remilly were both beautiful when recently encountered.
 
That's really useful, thanks William. Couple of questions on this:

- roughly how many years post vintage would you suggest waiting before opening 2015-17 village wines/1er crus?
- will 2018s open up materially quicker than that? I haven't tried any of my 18s yet.
 
Nick Amis said:
That's really useful, thanks William. Couple of questions on this:

- roughly how many years post vintage would you suggest waiting before opening 2015-17 village wines/1er crus?
- will 2018s open up materially quicker than that? I haven't tried any of my 18s yet.
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Honestly, based on the bottles from my cellar, 2015 Le Banc will be showing a lot more of its cards in 2025 than it does now. And that is one of the "entry level" wines (a friend of mine worked harvest there in 2018 and lamented the length of the rows: he insists its far too inexpensive for the pain he experienced picking the grapes), so I would be thinking of age 15-20 for the Caillerets for example. Perhaps some of the rounder, more sunny sites will charm earlier: thinking of La Romanée, Porusots, etc. The Bâtard struck me as the most structured and the one to keep the longest, I might open mine in 2040. Does anyone really keep white Burgundy that long these days? Well, when a producer makes as much of an effort to produce age worthy wines as PY does, it seems to me that the consumer should try to keep their side of the bargain. And if you open an e.g. 2009 Perrières today, from a period when élevage wasn't so long and the cellar wasn't as cold, the reward of patience are considerable.

I do think the '18s will open up faster than 2015-2017, but I would still give them some time; as much to let them fill out and take on weight (as I think they will) as to let them digest their élevage, sulfur and structure. Try 2018 Le Banc in 2024 for example?
 
William Kelley said:
I would cast a vote for waiting on all of these, honestly.

2015s from my cellar are youthful (most recently a 2015 Le Banc which was just beginning to open structurally), and I remember PY thought it would be a very long-lived vintage when we tasted it together from barrel, citing high levels of structuring extract from thick skins and correct pHs, as well as the wines' resistance to oxidation when left in an open container for a number of days.

2015-2017 were also his first vintages in his new cellars, which are cooler and he has found that the wines retain high levels of free sulfur as a result. He thinks that he didn't sufficiently adjust his sulfur addition program to take that into account and the wines were all really tight out of the gates compared to how they showed from barrel. This won't be a problem for the long haul but unless you like drinking your white Burgundy when it's very shy, tight, and matchstick-inflected, these are not years I would be lining up for near-term consumption.

If you ever consider backfilling, I might look for 2013, which Pierre-Yves handled really well, and which is beginning to open up very nicely. The Caillerets and Remilly were both beautiful when recently encountered.
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Thanks very much for the detailed and informed reply William. I think on the basis of your insights, I shall sit on them for longer (but I wonder how much longer is needed). As for the 2013s, I'm on my last bottle and I agree enthusiastically that they're drinking very well. On the whole, I'm OK with being patient - I have some lesser white burgundies that will have to fill in the potential gap.
 
I had my single bottle of 2012 PV 1er En Caradeaux last weekend and it was lovely.
My first PYCM white and was expecting the matchstick note to start but none for this. Either gone or as Willliam says maybe more subtle in the past with a warmer cellar
 
Following a post recently from Ian Hampstead whose palate I trust and enjoy very much.He noted PYCM Corton Charlemagne 2011 was his white wine of the year.
I have my first proper lunch next week so I have just taken my 11 CC out of bond along with the 2011 Chassagne Montrachet 1er cru Caillerets.
it will be interesting to see how they are developing at age 10 . Will revert
 
William I have 2011 Corton Charlemagne and Meursault Perrieres 1/ both of which have evolved significantly in the last 3-5 years and 2/ both of which seem to be in a prime place/sweet spot right now, drinking really well. Do you think it is best to wait on these? Or, though they are aged ten, are they likely to improve further?
 
Ian Hampsted said:
William I have 2011 Corton Charlemagne and Meursault Perrieres 1/ both of which have evolved significantly in the last 3-5 years and 2/ both of which seem to be in a prime place/sweet spot right now, drinking really well. Do you think it is best to wait on these? Or, though they are aged ten, are they likely to improve further?
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Ian, PY’s 11s have been drinking well for a few years now. I’ve not tried those two, but CM Caillerets, Vide Bourse and Meursault Charmes have all been super, and I’d be happily tucking in to 11 CC and Perrieres if I had any.
 
Ian Hampsted said:
William I have 2011 Corton Charlemagne and Meursault Perrieres 1/ both of which have evolved significantly in the last 3-5 years and 2/ both of which seem to be in a prime place/sweet spot right now, drinking really well. Do you think it is best to wait on these? Or, though they are aged ten, are they likely to improve further?
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2011 is a pretty forward vintage and I think a good one to attack now, as Simon says, and as your experience (and mine) confirms!
 
I've only ever had a PYCM wine once. That was a Chassagne 1er cru 2011 at the Xmas Wimps in 2019. I'm wondering how these wines compare to their peers in terms of quality and longevity. Are they worth the premium they seem to command? And is there a definite step up in the hierarchy, with the Puligny and Chassagne clearly better than the St Aubin and so on?
 
David Pope said:
I just thought I'd bump this, in case some of you hadn't seen my query......
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Definitely worth it for longevity (so far, only two decades of track record). Can be a distinctive style especially in their youth that not everyone appreciates. Clear hierarchy, but that’s not to belittle the lower wines — assuming primary pricing, St A 1ers probably the QPR sweet spot?
 
Thanks Simon. I ask because I'm thinking of investing in a couple for my next significant birthday offline in six years' time! I was wondering about the Pernand Vergelesses Sous Fretilles, which is not much more than the St Aubin.
 
Mark Carrington said:
Agreed.
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I would disent from this point of view to some extent. For example, for me (and Pierre-Yves has agreed, I assume not out of more politesse) the Bâtard (very old vines he farms) is > Chevalier (purchased must); and while the Chassagne Caillerets and Meursault Perrieres are the dominant 1ers crus, the En Remilly and Chatenière from Saint-Aubin can give the likes of Baudines, Chenevottes and Garenne more than a run for their money. Assuming that Puligny > Chassagne > Saint-Aubin holds true has always been a mistake, but that has never been truer today, as dry conditions and warmer vintages throw farming into heightened relief and upset traditional hierarchies of sites; and when different provenance for a house that includes both maison and domaine production is patterned onto that, the picture becomes even more complex.

To answer the question a different way, I buy Caillerets, En Remilly and Chatenière for my own cellar.
 
David Pope said:
Thanks Simon. I ask because I'm thinking of investing in a couple for my next significant birthday offline in six years' time! I was wondering about the Pernand Vergelesses Sous Fretilles, which is not much more than the St Aubin.
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The only experience I've had with the P-V SF is the '17. The first two bottles were very good indeed & at a level of the St A. 1er cru Hommage à Marguerite '17.
 
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