TWS Rhône 19 offer

The wine is IMHO excellent, but it’s hardly an alternative to Gonon. At a superficial level maybe (good vineyard work, not destemmed, old barrels), but it’s hardly a wine of finesse.

Looking forward to the notes from those that rush in to buy when they discover that they’ve never seen tannins like those before. I really like the wine, bit it’s not for the faint of heart. In fact the only person here that should certainly rush in is Tom Blach! I think J L-L’s characterisation of “a good drop of country wine” is close to how I feel about them.
 
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I am always
The wine is IMHO excellent, but it’s hardly an alternative to Gonon. At a superficial level maybe (good vineyard work, not destemmed, old barrels), but it’s hardly a wine of finesse.

Looking forward to the notes from those that rush in to buy when they discover that they’ve never seen tannins like those before. I really like the wine, bit it’s not for the faint of heart. In fact the only person here that should certainly rush in is Tom Blach! I think J L-L’s characterisation of “a good drop of country wine” is close to how I feel about them.
And from others who complain about price when they keep bumping the thread...
 
I was advised Aymeric Paillard St Joseph petit pere as an up and coming producer with Gonon type talent. I bought a bottle but will wait for it to age before drinking it. Anybody with experience?
 
I was advised Aymeric Paillard St Joseph petit pere as an up and coming producer with Gonon type talent. I bought a bottle but will wait for it to age before drinking it. Anybody with experience?
I’ve had it a couple of times, both ‘16 vintage I think. Lovely wine. Doesn’t have the depth maybe of Gonon, different wine. Aymeric Paillard, Gouye, Gonon - room in my collection for all of these.
 
I was advised Aymeric Paillard St Joseph petit pere as an up and coming producer with Gonon type talent. I bought a bottle but will wait for it to age before drinking it. Anybody with experience?
Not with the producer, but with the situation...

By the time you’ve aged it to confirm whether it’s any good you will find others will have decided to follow the herd, or taken advice from “experts” and if it’s really any good the price will have taken off or all wines will be allocated to previous buyers.

There is only one course of action. Open it, try for yourself and make a decision. Unless you only want to try it only once of course.
 
Sounds like the Gouye wines aren't approachable in their youth and need a good 15 years post vintage before opening?
I haven’t tried the ’17 only the ’15 and ‘16, but they are not really in need of much in the way of ageing and certainly not for fifteen years. The danger is in the slight imbalance between fruit and tannin. I would drink a few on the fruit, saving a few more to be tried over the mid term (say three to five years from now) and if all is going well you might extend another few years to see if they really look likely to turn into swans.

Don’t get me wrong, I really like the wines, but for what they are and that is (in my view) “honest, unforced, gutsy old-fashioned, slightly rustic” wines, not wines for extended ageing with a view to them coming out of a chrysalis and turning into butterflies.
 
I haven’t tried the ’17 only the ’15 and ‘16, but they are not really in need of much in the way of ageing and certainly not for fifteen years. The danger is in the slight imbalance between fruit and tannin. I would drink a few on the fruit, saving a few more to be tried over the mid term (say three to five years from now) and if all is going well you might extend another few years to see if they really look likely to turn into swans.

Don’t get me wrong, I really like the wines, but for what they are and that is (in my view) “honest, unforced, gutsy old-fashioned, slightly rustic” wines, not wines for extended ageing with a view to them coming out of a chrysalis and turning into butterflies.

Any view of Gouye in comparison to Graillot?
 
Any view of Gouye in comparison to Graillot?
Haven’t had Graillot for many years now. My memory of Graillot is of “very earthy savoury wines full of olives and meat stock” punching above their weight. They were darlings for a while and the wines became expensive vs their peers very quickly. I think the son took over and I lost touch completely.

In many ways I can see similarities. Gutsy wines from decent but not grand terroir. No artifice.
 
The wine is IMHO excellent, but it’s hardly an alternative to Gonon. At a superficial level maybe (good vineyard work, not destemmed, old barrels), but it’s hardly a wine of finesse.

Looking forward to the notes from those that rush in to buy when they discover that they’ve never seen tannins like those before. I really like the wine, bit it’s not for the faint of heart. In fact the only person here that should certainly rush in is Tom Blach! I think J L-L’s characterisation of “a good drop of country wine” is close to how I feel about them.
I bought a few of these prior to mentions on the thread intrigued by what I found after some online digging and allusions to similarities to Trollat and possibly Gonon. The 2017 VV tonight....

The nose is entirely savoury; marmite, beef stock and black olive. Tannins are firm to put it mildly. They remind me of a mag of 1995 Lafon Rochet that Ray A shared post SuperBOWL in c.2009/2019; properly chewy and tooth coating. Savoury palate too. Possibly some damson but mainly marmite and olives. There's an intriguing perfume on the finish though.

Opening this and expecting a Gonon style wine is like putting 97 Unleaded in a Corsa and expecting Ferrari performance. It's intriguing but there are other Syrahs I'd buy ahead of this for pure pleasure (and at least one at a similar price point to the Gouye that I'd happily put alongside Gonon and wager that people would confuse them). I will be interested to see what happens to the rest of the bottle overnight though. My conclusion - don't panic Mr Mainwaring, he's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy...
 
I bought a few of these prior to mentions on the thread intrigued by what I found after some online digging and allusions to similarities to Trollat and possibly Gonon. The 2017 VV tonight....

The nose is entirely savoury; marmite, beef stock and black olive. Tannins are firm to put it mildly. They remind me of a mag of 1995 Lafon Rochet that Ray A shared post SuperBOWL in c.2009/2019; properly chewy and tooth coating. Savoury palate too. Possibly some damson but mainly marmite and olives. There's an intriguing perfume on the finish though.

Opening this and expecting a Gonon style wine is like putting 97 Unleaded in a Corsa and expecting Ferrari performance. It's intriguing but there are other Syrahs I'd buy ahead of this for pure pleasure (and at least one at a similar price point to the Gouye that I'd happily put alongside Gonon and wager that people would confuse them). I will be interested to see what happens to the rest of the bottle overnight though. My conclusion - don't panic Mr Mainwaring, he's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy...
In the 15 (and I’d expect the 17) the VV is a touch more difficult at this stage of its evolution. It is both more tannic and seemingly evolved. I think that this is a wine to be taken on trust. The 24 Month bottling is more fruity and slightly less tannic (though the tannic quality is similar ie. ripe but grainy) but this is relative to the VV not their peers.

Again, I wouldn’t want anyone to think I dislike or am being disparaging about these wines. As I have repeatedly pointed out I own them, will still buy them and would certainly buy them in preference to any of the “cellar wines” out there, just simply want people to be aware that they are not for everyone In the way that say Gonon or Chave St Jo’s are.
 
Location
London
Gouye is just not like Trollat, or Gonon, in style. If people want something akin to Gonon, have a look at Gripa. Not as high a stem percentage and maybe a touch of new oak but similar terroir and quality. 90% of the bang for a third of the (secondary market) buck.
Agree with this. Although Fabrice Gripa is a fabulous white wine maker his reds have improved considerably and the “Berceau” Cuvée (60yo+ vines/ core St Jo site) is particularly top notch. TWS were selling the 2010 of this recently for £40/bottle proving Jon’s last point perfectly.
 
I bought a few of these prior to mentions on the thread intrigued by what I found after some online digging and allusions to similarities to Trollat and possibly Gonon. The 2017 VV tonight....

The nose is entirely savoury; marmite, beef stock and black olive. Tannins are firm to put it mildly. They remind me of a mag of 1995 Lafon Rochet that Ray A shared post SuperBOWL in c.2009/2019; properly chewy and tooth coating. Savoury palate too. Possibly some damson but mainly marmite and olives. There's an intriguing perfume on the finish though.

Opening this and expecting a Gonon style wine is like putting 97 Unleaded in a Corsa and expecting Ferrari performance. It's intriguing but there are other Syrahs I'd buy ahead of this for pure pleasure (and at least one at a similar price point to the Gouye that I'd happily put alongside Gonon and wager that people would confuse them). I will be interested to see what happens to the rest of the bottle overnight though. My conclusion - don't panic Mr Mainwaring, he's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy...

How big is the exhaust on the Corsa though? ;)
 
I see that Matthew Jukes is a big fan of La Chapelle 2019. I used to share his palate about 30 years ago, when I liked oaky monsters. I've not paid much attention to him since, and wonder if his tastes have changed at all.

“This is a monumental wine with the finest Syrah nose I have seen since the ethereal and intriguing beauty of the remarkable 2016 vintage and also the monolithic stance of the legendary 1990.”

He continues, “What I find so remarkable about this wine is that it does not show any trace of over-ripeness nor does it have any unwanted oiliness or excessive alcohol. In spite of its richness and depth, this is a pristinely refreshing wine with crunch and crackle of filigree tannin which enlivens every sip.”

He gave a score of 20++ (whatever that means)

Now, I'm not sure that "Monumental" is necessarily a word to describe something pleasant to drink.
 
He continues, “What I find so remarkable about this wine is that it does not show any trace of over-ripeness nor does it have any unwanted oiliness or excessive alcohol. In spite of its richness and depth, this is a pristinely refreshing wine with crunch and crackle of filigree tannin which enlivens every sip.”
If you're just tasting (and often spitting), as I keep on saying, wine like this will impress. Try drinking half a bottle at 15.5/15.75% alcohol and I'll eat my hat if you're feeling refreshed after that. Some people really do like this sort of wine, but it flies in the face of the tradition of the N. Rhone which was for 12.5% in Cote-Rotie and Cornas, and 13% in Hermitage until fairly recently. This is a completely new sort of N. Rhone which now competes with Napa syrah and Chateauneuf-du-Pape in the weight, ripeness and alcohol stakes.
 
If you're just tasting (and often spitting), as I keep on saying, wine like this will impress. Try drinking half a bottle at 15.5/15.75% alcohol and I'll eat my hat if you're feeling refreshed after that. Some people really do like this sort of wine, but it flies in the face of the tradition of the N. Rhone which was for 12.5% in Cote-Rotie and Cornas, and 13% in Hermitage until fairly recently. This is a completely new sort of N. Rhone which now competes with Napa syrah and Chateauneuf-du-Pape in the weight, ripeness and alcohol stakes.
Yes - I think Jukes is one of the "some people"
 
@Richard Zambuni would be very interesting to see data on recent vintage ABVs to compare the leading names in the key Northern Rhone appellations.

Is there any Hermitage, Cote Rotie or Cornas still made at the ABVs you mentioned?

Is it just Jaboulet Hermitage that is the main culprit for excessive modern day ABVs and if so since when?

Thanks
 
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It's easy to forget about the physical experience of eating and drinking, but as Richard suggests it is a vital component of enjoyment. Sometimes I want a great big bang of alcohol, but I never want that from wine-I'm always surprised at the extraordinarily low physical impact of a wine like the 12% S. Magnien Chambolle 09 that I drank last week, one almost ( in a very positive way) doesn't register that one has drunk something containing alcohol, whereas a wine at 13.5% can be slightly debilitating if taken at luncheon-though I rather have the idea that a wine chaptalised to 13.5%(a la practically all red burgundies of the previous century) has less of an impact than one with only natural alcohol. Is chaptalisation allowed in the Northern Rhone, and has it ever been a feature?
Those 15% +bruisers always seem to me very indigestible and physically difficult to enjoy-so why am I quite OK with a beaker of fino?
 
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