Unrequited Love

[Thom Blach]

I have been drinking Dolcetto from better producers, and have always felt the same. But more recently I have had a couple of cheaper ones, and found them to be much more like the usual descriptions, and much more enjoyable. I feel perhaps some producers try too hard to make what they consider to be a serious wine from a grape much more suited to gluggability.

Any particular examples, Steve? I've often found Dolcetto to be as described by Adam,and usually bruisingly and pointlessly alcoholic with it.

 

[Christopher Topham-Smith]

Huge generalisation, but.....right bank claret..

I find it safer to say that I gravitate towards the Left Bank, leaving others to draw their own conclusions.

Having said that, the international Bordeaux blends that I've bought in recent years (the likes of Capaia One, Enira and Ugaba) have all been 'oversexed Saint-Emilion' in style...

 

[Steve Slatcher]

Any particular examples, Steve? I've often found Dolcetto to be as described by Adam,and usually bruisingly and pointlessly alcoholic with it.

Dolcetto d'Alba DOC, M Marengo, 2015 (tasted in 2018 - around a tenner I think)

Dolcetta d'Alba DOC, Comm G B Burlotto, 2016 (tasted in 2019 - £13)

Actually, maybe they are not particularly cheap, but those are the ones I was thinking of.

Thinking of "lesser" Piemonte varieties Pelaverga and Freisa are also good easy-drinking varieties IMO

 

[Craig Dennis]

Interesting reading through the threads and always a delight to see the breath of wines that people either don't get or are still trying to get - it seems to [pretty much cover the wine world which is great as one persons, thin acidic or overly tannic beast is obviously someone else's joy and delight. It would be an even worse wine world if we all were into the same thing. For me, it pretty much tends to be Italian wines, a massive sweeping generalisation, but I have tasted and tried to like most of the key regions, both young and with some age with a pretty low epiphany rate (e.g. zero). I just don't find them providing the uplifting experience or interest that I have encountered in other regions, which is then allied with a "the last thing I need is another wine region to fall in love with" perspective means I am not overly bothered. Plenty of other stuff to work through

 

[Richard Zambuni]

I just don't find them providing the uplifting experience or interest that I have encountered in other regions, which is then allied with a "the last thing I need is another wine region to fall in love with" perspective means I am not overly bothered.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with John Arnold of A&B about Oregon wines (and why I haven't taken the bait). It's just a region too far for me and I have a large enough cellar now that proper exploration of new areas is rationally not possible. And if I did really like them, I just couldn't justify landing up with them.

 

[Joel Hopwood]

The Chianti-deniers need to track down a bottle of Tenuta La Caparsa 'Caparsino' 2012. If you don't like that, you can give up on Chianti

I have one bottle left which I would gladly open and share with anyone who would like to, but it's probably illegal right now

 

[Chiu Lin]

This reminds me of a conversation I had with John Arnold of A&B about Oregon wines (and why I haven't taken the bait). It's just a region too far for me and I have a large enough cellar now that proper exploration of new areas is rationally not possible. And if I did really like them, I just couldn't justify landing up with them.

I bought a mixed case of Oregon PN from A&B and taken delivery recently. I will figure out soon if I want to probe further and visit Oregon next year (assume we get out of this COVID thingy soon enough).

 

[Andy Leslie]

Two things spring to mind - Bordeaux & German Riesling.

Years ago I thought I really ought to like Bordeaux and that I wasn't trying hard enough. But despite plenty of exposure to good, maybe even great, wines from young vintages through to mature I've accepted that they simply don't move me.

German Riesling is a different story. I've always liked Riesling & I bought some German maybe 20 years ago but made some uneven choices and ended-up with wines that were too sweet for Mrs Leslie, too sweet for the sorts of food I'd bought them for and didn't keep well. In the last couple of years I've been reminded how much I enjoy wines from good producers - JJP, Molitor, Donhoff have stood out but maybe others too. But I have a strong feeling that that ship has sailed now & why worry about trial-and-error German purchases when I can buy Weinbach or Boxler from Alsace? On the other hand, if I could taste before deciding then I might be tempted back, but those opportunities were rare pre-pandemic, never mind now.

 

[Adam Ventress]

Chianti very hit & miss for me

There is just so much of it that's the trouble, plenty that is mediocre, but when it's really good, there are very few wines that I find quite so satisfying. It's taken me a long time to settle on my favourite producers, which are Riecine, Badia a Coltibuono and Monteraponi, while the bigger names Fontodi Felsina and Isole e Olena I have to some extent fallen out of love with over time.

 

[Joel Hopwood]

I'm going to put "Auslese" in the box too. Just what is the point... too rich for savoury food and not sweet enough for pudding.

I've got 4 bottles of Wehlener Sonnenuhr 2001 Auslese which I wish I could swap for Spat/ Kab (which I love to drink - Spatlese fab with roast pork, Kab goes well with breathing in and out on a sunny day I find)

 

[Ben Coffman]

There is just so much of it that's the trouble, plenty that is mediocre, but when it's really good, there are very few wines that I find quite so satisfying. It's taken me a long time to settle on my favourite producers, which are Riecine, Badia a Coltibuono and Monteraponi, while the bigger names Fontodi Felsina and Isole e Olena I have to some extent fallen out of love with over time.

I bought a half case of 1999 Badia a Coltibuono CC at Strakers about 5 years ago for not much because I fancied some Chianti. I didn't know much about it. They were all sensational: charming and perfumed. Lucky, but an estate I since bought and are not expensive.

 

[kevin heatherington]

I’m hesitating on this one but I’m going to say Rioja. I tell myself that with proper age to it it is one of my favourite reds but when I scroll back thought my notes there are far more examples where I’m underwhelmed rather than overjoyed. I do love it when it has that complexity but more often it falls a little short.

 

[Mark Palmer]

I’m hesitating on this one but I’m going to say Rioja. I tell myself that with proper age to it it is one of my favourite reds but when I scroll back thought my notes there are far more examples where I’m underwhelmed rather than overjoyed. I do love it when it has that complexity but more often it falls a little short.

Ooh yes. Barring Tondonia most I’ve tried have left me with the scarring mental image of “Bordeaux with American oak”. Bordeaux occasionally moves me with the right food, but usually I just feel underwhelmed, bored even, but the same thing made with American oak? Hmm.

 

[Mark Palmer]

There is just so much of it that's the trouble, plenty that is mediocre, but when it's really good, there are very few wines that I find quite so satisfying. It's taken me a long time to settle on my favourite producers, which are Riecine, Badia a Coltibuono and Monteraponi, while the bigger names Fontodi Felsina and Isole e Olena I have to some extent fallen out of love with over time.

Haven’t tried Monteraponi, but the other two I agree wholeheartedly. BaC I discovered at my regular summer hotel a number of years ago and have drunk regularly with gusto. Fontodi usually tends towards stolidity for me, but occasionally enjoyable and IeO I find a bit polished into boringness.

I used to enjoy Volpaia a while back, but a few bottles seemed too oaky a while back and I stopped trying. If you haven’t tried Castellinuzza you might want to. Light, zingy and unforced.

 

[Craig Dennis]

I bought a mixed case of Oregon PN from A&B and taken delivery recently. I will figure out soon if I want to probe further and visit Oregon next year (assume we get out of this COVID thingy soon enough).

Oregon most definitely worth the visit, it is a beautiful part of the world and the wineries are relatively easy to access from Portland. I think the sell is pretty tough with these wines just because most people quite reasonably will drink them young and will potentially be a little underwhelmed. I have been drinking them for a good few years and a number have aged really well, some a little less so. The average vine age is starting to get to a good level of maturity but it is still a young region with a lot of potential. I find much more finesse in the wines than their Cali cousins and that is what makes the difference for me, but as ever pricing is a challenge for dipping your toe into when comparing what you get equivalently (or used to) from Burgundy and other established NW PN producers e.g. NZ, cooler Australian climates and SA

 

[Adam Ventress]

Haven’t tried Monteraponi, but the other two I agree wholeheartedly. BaC I discovered at my regular summer hotel a number of years ago and have drunk regularly with gusto. Fontodi usually tends towards stolidity for me, but occasionally enjoyable and IeO I find a bit polished into boringness.

I used to enjoy Volpaia a while back, but a few bottles seemed too oaky a while back and I stopped trying. If you haven’t tried Castellinuzza you might want to. Light, zingy and unforced.

Monteraponi are excellent, the regular CC is 95% Sangiovese, 5% Canaiolo, aged in large barrels. All elements in place that you want from a good CC and none that you don't! Freshness, acidity, tannin, medium body, fruit and savoury, balanced, drinkable, no oakiness or over extraction.
I agree on Isole and Fontodi being too polished, and also have mixed reports on Volpaia, the regular CC is light on its feet but the Reserva does have some noticeable oak which is always a negative for me.

 

[Mark Palmer]

Monteraponi are excellent, the regular CC is 95% Sangiovese, 5% Canaiolo, aged in large barrels. All elements in place that you want from a good CC and none that you don't! Freshness, acidity, tannin, medium body, fruit and savoury, balanced, drinkable, no oakiness or over extraction.

That’s the recipe I’m always looking for.

To be fair Monteraponi have been on my radar for a while, just never quite got my act together.

 

[Alistair Scott]

Interesting reading through the threads and always a delight to see the breath of wines that people either don't get or are still trying to get - it seems to [pretty much cover the wine world which is great as one persons, thin acidic or overly tannic beast is obviously someone else's joy and delight. It would be an even worse wine world if we all were into the same thing. For me, it pretty much tends to be Italian wines, a massive sweeping generalisation, but I have tasted and tried to like most of the key regions, both young and with some age with a pretty low epiphany rate (e.g. zero). I just don't find them providing the uplifting experience or interest that I have encountered in other regions, which is then allied with a "the last thing I need is another wine region to fall in love with" perspective means I am not overly bothered. Plenty of other stuff to work through

Somehow reminds me of the Len Evans' saying: "Sell the people what they want so you can drink what you want".

 

[Russ Sainty]

My problem area is Bordeaux, I like it sometimes, when at offlines people open grand bottles and I love them. However, at home I rarely open them and when i do I'm disappointed. Maybe it's a drinking style, home v restaurant/ or off line. I especially have problems with merlot based clarets, but again I've enjoy plenty of Pomerols etc.
Probably me, possible mentally deranged.

New World Sauvignon Blanc, especially New Zealand, double special for Marlborough, I just can't drink it. This is different as I actually don't like it.

Food, I want to like seafood. Such a fuss made of fresh fish and shellfish. I live near Mersea, know oysterman,but I'm not sure I've ever enjoyed anything that tastes of the sea. I always try, especially if it a set course menu, even at Wimps, but I realise it's not for me. I also apologise for my poor reviews I now see they were of the fish course. If I ever get back, I promise to skip the fish.

 

[Tom Grande]

Russ

Were you given fish and seafood as a child?

 

[Russ Sainty]

Russ

Were you given fish and seafood as a child?

A little I think, but as I didn't like it, not too much. My father loved smoked fish and shellfish, especially cockles which we'd collect on the seashore, raking then boiling at home. I couldn't stand the smell. I remember the icy cold mornings sailing out to harvest them fondly.
I like fish fingers, fish and chips, which taste of their coating and brown sauce.

 

[Tom Grande]

Ah well, it's obviously a long standing aversion. I think there's quite a difference between fish, especially meaty fish, and shellfish which in consistency, appearance and taste is pretty diverse.

Mind you, plenty of foods I turned my nose up at as a child I now seek out...

 

[Paul J a i n e s]

I think it was 1928 that had an excess of double Mags ?

Yeah, I need to get rid of the remaining 24 I have in the cellar. All in perfect condition !!

Re: other wines I dont get on with - never really understood Barbera and Dolcetto d'Alba. They just seem like "red wine" to me. As in, no discernable character.

 

[kevin heatherington]

Bordeaux is an interesting one. Rarely sublime, predictable, even boring at times, but, with age, it is the epitome of balance and red fruit, cedar and tobacco charm. A great food wine.

But the problem is the price. In the days when one could get minor classed growths and top Cru Bourgeois for under £30 it was the perfect Sunday lunch wine. But no way am I going to fork out £75+ a bottle, cellar it for 10-15 years and then drink it with my Sunday roast. At that price I want a whole lot more and know I’m not going to get it.

 

[Paul J a i n e s]

Interesting post about Bordeaux, Kevin. I've moved waaaaay down the foodchain on Bordeaux and find myself having so much more pleasure..... I just can't be arsed to sit and wait for aged Bordeaux these days .... and drinking the grander wines too young in their life just give a fairly generic experience.

Of course, if anyone has any mature Haut Brion going, I wont say no.