Wine fridge questions

David Pope said:
I'm just wondering to what extent a Liebherr will warm up the rest of the cellar/garage/room? My Liebherr is in my spare room, along with a lot of other bottles. I've stored wine in my spare room for many years. I keep the temperature down by keeping the curtains drawn and the radiator drawn. This has usually worked well but in recent years I have noticed that some wines have not lasted as well as one might expect. A couple of 1er crus Burgs from 1996 were out of condition earlier this year, to give one example. I had put this down to global warming but I wonder if the heat pumped out by the Liebherr is also a factor.
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The manual on my Climadiff states that it uses about 154 kWh per year.....This compares with about 700kWh for an average fridge, which is logical as its internal temp. is 12C rather than 3-4C and it doesn't get opened nearly so often. Assuming most of this translates into heat somewhere I'm sure some bright spark could compute the effect on room temperature, but I'll bet it isn't very much. The multitemperature wine fridges would push out more heat I'm sure, as would those with glass doors.
 
Alistair Lime said:
It’s the costco one ‘Montpellier’

Costco

www.costco.co.uk www.costco.co.uk

Looking again it is 181 theoretical rather than 188 and it does seem a bit of a stretch given some similar sized units max out at 120 bottles. A review elsewhere has 154 full and 26 halves so i wonder if half bottles are counted in the max capacity!

With the fewer shelves of the climadiff or liebherr i see you do have way more flexibility and can stand up wine etc
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I have a very similar model to this Costco one and it has served me well for around fifteen years. The number of bottles they say it can take is imaginary, the actual number probably about 10% less (same for other similar shelved models I have). They calculate that each shelf can hold 12 bottles, whereas in practice, 11 is the real number and that's only with standard size Bdx bottles.

I often find that the best fit is 6 Bdx bottles at the back and then 5 Burg/Rhone style at the front. Tall riesling bottles are often problematic although I fit Sauternes halves between those instead. I like this model for ease of access as noted and just keep a spreadsheet to note what is where and how much each cost on purchase (which sometimes I update with aged wine info as things get older).

I have been very happy with this, no issues with leakage or cork drying over the years and the wines seem to age just fine; some I have had in there for nearly 15 years now. Mine is a split temperature which I run at 12/16C. Probably the one downside is that the shelves in my version can't easily be removed (they are not just slide out) so fatter bottles can be an issue although it does have one shelf (top of the lower section) which can accomodate such bottles. I have other models where the shelves can be removed to make a bit more space for larger bottles (e.g. champers).

Cheers

Dave
 
David Pope said:
I'm just wondering to what extent a Liebherr will warm up the rest of the cellar/garage/room? My Liebherr is in my spare room, along with a lot of other bottles. I've stored wine in my spare room for many years. I keep the temperature down by keeping the curtains drawn and the radiator drawn. This has usually worked well but in recent years I have noticed that some wines have not lasted as well as one might expect. A couple of 1er crus Burgs from 1996 were out of condition earlier this year, to give one example. I had put this down to global warming but I wonder if the heat pumped out by the Liebherr is also a factor.
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Basic physics says that the Liebherr will warm the rest of the room - every joule that's used in cooling the fridge will go into the rest of the room. If it's a very small room that might make a significant difference to the room temperature. It's probably equivalent to leaving a 150W light bulb switched on when you leave the room (apart from the possible effects from the light produced).
 
Alistair Lime said:
Quick Question:

I was about to buy a Wine fridge with lots of shelving for the convenience of access (see below left).
However, I now understand that the accepted wisdom may be that storage capacity/density becomes the most important factor so fewer shelves, less convenient access but higher density is what people that have owned larger wine fridges before value (below right).
Is this a good assumption?


View attachment 18920View attachment 18921
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I have never owned the type with many shelves, but have two of the other one.

In my opinion, that is precisely the choice that needs to be made. Just don't underestimate the importance of the pros and cons. Perhaps the best you can do is check if the fridge offers flexibility to change the shelving arrangement, including adding and removing shelves. If anything, I'd say easy access is more important for the lower shelves. Unloading and reloading multiple bottles, just get a wine for dinner, while bending over or on your knees is not much fun.
 
Dave Dewhurst said:
I often find that the best fit is 6 Bdx bottles at the back and then 5 Burg/Rhone style at the front. Tall riesling bottles are often problematic although I fit Sauternes halves between those instead
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Just to be clear, my comments on bottle shapes not being much of an issue were in the context of having a fewer shelves with I stacks of bottles. I am not not disagreeing with Dave's comments here
 
We have two 360 capacity Liebherrs in the shop, in a closed off area not much bigger than the two units.
Normally on opening the doors the ‘cupboard’ isn’t noticeably warmer than the rest of the shop.

The exception is when the doors have been open for a long time (once a month I take everything out and rearrange new stock etc.
 
Russell Faulkner said:
We have two 360 capacity Liebherrs in the shop, in a closed off area not much bigger than the two units.
Normally on opening the doors the ‘cupboard’ isn’t noticeably warmer than the rest of the shop.
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But maybe without the fridge the cupboard would be cooler than the shop?

In the summer, that is certainly the case with understairs cupboard/room in my house.
 
I doubt it. It’s just an inset area in the middle. With thin MDF doors. So of course the heat could just escape less noticeably. But it’s really observable when the doors have been open or the fridge has been off.
 
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Steve Slatcher said:
Not if you get the wooden shelves they don't. But they are thicker, and on some shelves that might be the difference between getting in another row of bottles and not. If you want to maximise fridge space just let the shelves flex
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Nope! Got the wooden shelves - maybe mine are slightly thinner for some reason.
 
Nigel Palesford said:
Nope! Got the wooden shelves - maybe mine are slightly thinner for some reason.
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Interesting. Yes, from looking at pictures, modern Liebherr wooden shelves do seem to be a different design from mine. And they are of beech wood, while ISTR mine were advertised as cherry. My wooden shelves are solid as a rock - arguably over-engineered.

If I need more shelves I might improvise, as I see also see that they sell for £90 each!
 
Steve Slatcher said:
But maybe without the fridge the cupboard would be cooler than the shop?

In the summer, that is certainly the case with understairs cupboard/room in my house.
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There will definitely be some effect.....using my manual's stated power consimption this is equivalent to slightly less than leaving a 20W light bulb (that's twenty, not two hundred) on 24/7, assuming it all translates into heat. In a tiny room I'm sure you'd notice something...
 
A quick google says a human generates as much heat as a 100W bulb.

So my cupboard is warming at a rate of 2/5th as much as it would with a human in there.

The obvious way to prove this is to stick my legs in there, turn the fridges off, and see if the temperature remains the same.

Maybe tomorrow. ;)
 
Thread resurrection!

We’ll be moving house in the new year and something I’ll be adding in will be a single zone wine fridge for maturing bottles (rather than for every day use).

Some questions:

- I plan to put the fridge in the garage, which is integrated into the house. So I’d expect some temperature swings over the course of a year, but in theory not too bad. The house is new build so very energy efficient etc. Does this tend towards a certain type / brand than others?
- most people here seem to have opted for 200ish bottles. I note some fridges come up to around 300 or so - which I’d be tempted by as it’ll fit in nicely. Any reason a 200-or-so version might be preferable to a bigger one?
- I seem to gravitate towards Liebherr / Climadiff for a sensible price/quality intersection. Any other brands I should be seeking out?

All and any advice welcome, of course

Thanks in advance!
 
I'd take the claimed storage quantity with a pinch of salt. The figures are based on stacking Bordeaux bottles only very tightly indeed. Once you introduce Burgundy or Rhone bottles it becomes much more difficult to stack them securely and you will find you store less. So it depends what you intend to store in it to some degree.

Personally if I had say 200 bottles to store I might be looking at a 240-250 model to allow for odd shaped bottles and give a bit of room on the shelves. Bigger models offer more VFM but they do take up a lot of space and the weight in them is huge.

As Russ says you will need a heating element and I think all Climadiffs do have one. Not so sure on Liebherr. Liebherr tend to be significantly more expensive when you compare like with like.

I have two Climadiffs and both seem excellent. I recently bought a Reserve 185 from Elite Refrigeration for a very fair price and they do bigger versions of the same model. My only criticism of the Climadiffs that I have is that they don't have locks which I'd quite like to give extra security. Not sure if this would be an issue for others.
 
Re stacking capacity - I've found burgundy bottles (excluding stupid heavy ones) stack very efficiently as long as it is deep enough to get them in neck to neck. I think I have managed to exceed the stated capacity in my Climadiffs - but getting stuff in and out is a bugger.
 
I've had my Climadiff three years now and no problems so far..it does have a lock though I never use it. In our integral garage the heating element seems to come on sporadically in Jan/Feb but electricity consumption has been negligible (A+ rating).

The only niggle is the cost of replacement filters, but given the findings of the other thread on this I've stopped bothering with replacements..
 
Thanks all - really appreciate the comments. Hadn’t fully appreciated the heating element requirement so looks like Climadiff is the way to go!

Most of my bottles are Bordeaux and therefore hopefully a large portion will stack sensibly, though no doubt the 30 or so champagne / mags / Rhone will mess with that…
 
John Devlin said:
My only criticism of the Climadiffs that I have is that they don't have locks which I'd quite like to give extra security.
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They may give security against "wife and kids borrowing a bottle", but otherwise probably only mean the thief would wreck your fridge as well as nicking the bottles.

Otherwise....

My Liebherrs have heating elements that will maintain the set temperature for ambient temperatures down to 10C; below that the interior temperature could be too low. Below 0C the condensation outlet would freeze. I can live with that, but my main point would be that if low ambient temperature are a concern, I think you need enquire deeper than just looking for "heating element" on a checklist.

I've never had big problems with different bottle shapes and basic flat shelves. I usually try to keep the same shape in the pile on any one shelf, and otherwise in any row in a pile, but it's not disasterous if I can't manage it. (Actually, halves are the biggest problem for me, but again, not disasterous.)
 
I have a Liebherr designed to take (IIRC) 320+ bottles - have had a number similar to that, but generally run it at much lower as we also have lowish temp pantry storage...
Lives in the workshop which gets cold in winter - have had it c. 12 years with no issues Remembering where bottles are is a challenge - esp. as there is usually a stack of planks of hardwood stacked against the door ;) but generally shelves have different purposes - eg fizzy / stickies / magnums / etc. so doesn't take too long to find what I want.
 
Russell Gammon said:
Thanks all - really appreciate the comments. Hadn’t fully appreciated the heating element requirement so looks like Climadiff is the way to go!

Most of my bottles are Bordeaux and therefore hopefully a large portion will stack sensibly, though no doubt the 30 or so champagne / mags / Rhone will mess with that…
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Yes two climdiffs here, one outdoors in a brick shed and one indoors.
Go for the biggest you can as you will fill it and it won’t take as much as you imagined. You can buy extra shelves to give various options. I have two sliding presentation shelves in one for example and a couple of half shelves in another so I can stand up bottles if I wish.
 
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