NWR 6N 25

It was a pretty good all round performance by England but France made uncharacteristic handling errors. Had it not been for the weather France would have won, I think comfortably

After many near misses, they deserve a bit of luck
 
Not the most exciting game of rugby yesterday. But Ireland controlled the contact point therefore controlled the game. We should have sealed the bonus point in the first half, but impetuosity and 2 balls held up over the line stopped that. Prendergast fully deserved Man of the Match, his control of the game, masterful, but when forwards are giving you that much time with the ball in hand, his decision making should be good.

It was unfortunate for Darcy Graham and Finn Russell having to go off when they did. Russell adds a touch of uncertainty to a game, and Graham came into the game in his best form. I hope the 2 weeks off now gives Graham the chance to get back into the starting line up. We go to Cardiff now to hopefully win a Triple Crown, the first proper trophy of the season. Not one of these "well done" trophies given out at very match now.

I'm hoping England's win over France this weekend has given Easterby some insight into how to unlock the French defence and keep their attack at bay.

On one final note. Is the Marcus Smith experiment finally over? Whilst he offers excitement in the English back line when ever he plays. He also has poor judgement at times that dulls his performance. I think we'll see Steward back at 15 for their next game.
 
The trouble with Steward is he's just not quick enough to be a top class international 15. I think they may try Furbank again (though he hasn't yet shown he's a natural, either)
 
Borewick has yet to get his starters and finishers correctly sorted. Say what you like about Eddie jones but he did at least understand correctly how to use a match day 23 to best advantage.

Having been away somewhere that simply does not show rugby at all I’ve yet to see any games other than yesterday’s where I thought some brainless decisions (VDM had no need to impede the ireland wing and gave the ref a decision to make needlessly) and some game changing bad luck with the blue on blue collision, robbed us of a much closer contest.

For the conspiracists amongst us, it’s interesting that mr Russell was kept off despite passing his HIA given the lay off period of 2 weeks should he have failed and then not being eligible for the England game.

For the realists, I hope what GT said is true about him passing the tests but still not being happy with him knowing what was what. Concussions are still not dealt with properly and players should be following strict return to play protocols and be being seen to do so. On that basis of course he still should not be playing for three weeks if concussion is suspected.

Finally, I gather forward passes are allowed for players in green too now throughout the championship, this is not in the new global law trials as far as I can see. Any thought Sean? :p:p:p:p:p
 
Ok I'll bite, did you not get the memo about the movement of the hands at referee's school Chris?

I think the standard of refereeing has been pretty good this 6N. With more involvement with the TMO on all on field decisions. We saw a few of the refs decisions being reversed in the Scottish match due to intervention by the TMO. What we claim to see in a beery haze on a wee box with a chaser of partiality, can be entirely different to what the refs and TMO's paid to do their job. Having grown up in the game taught to call the ref Sir. I have to respect their decisions. It is markedly apparent that they must be getting something right as the partial commentators don't seem to be jumping out of their sits shouting "forward pass sir!"
 
Your right, Sean, in that the ref and TMO's must be respected. However, in both of the Irish matches I
I watched this 6N the ball has clearly gone forward at important times. As you say only close exam can say if the hands go forward etc and the TMO does that. I think it a defining tactic or skill of the Irish team. All teams play on the margin rule wise.
TV replays are not shown so I'm guess that's an agreement between the RFU and TV.
 
Worth being clear that a forward pass is not measured relative to the ground but to the player receving the pass. Forward means a pass leaving the hands of the passer to a player in front of the passer or that the pass leaves the hands in a direction forward of the position of the player. Movement forward that occurs because of the forward speed of the player is not 'forward'.

France's first try final pass in the Wales game (Dupont to Attissogbe) went forward by 3 meters (pass made 1m in front 5m line and caught 2m behind) but wasn't considered forward as Attissogbe was behind Dupont when the pass was made and Dupont's pass was made in a direction level with or behind his position.
 
In other news Gatland has finally fallen on his sword. Finally realised that you are never going to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

As a life long rugby player and fan of the game, it is heart rendering to see Wales sink deeper and deeper into the mire. There is something very wrong with the way the game is being managed and developed in the country presently.
 
I knew you would Sean ;)

Kinley - the way you describe this, for me, is a forward pass.

"France's first try final pass in the Wales game (Dupont to Attissogbe) went forward by 3 meters (pass made 1m in front 5m line and caught 2m behind) but wasn't considered forward as Attissogbe was behind Dupont when the pass was made and Dupont's pass was made in a direction level with or behind his position."

If this is legal then in theory one could wait for the onrushing defender to some level with the ball carrier, who then passes the ball behind them (in front of their own onrushing player) thereby taking the defender out of the game. and allowing the attacker to catch the ball behind the now helpless defender.

Not seen it though I will go and look it up.

It genuinely would not surprise me if Monsieur Dupont, legend that he is, has worked out how to seem to be passing backwards with his right hand, when in fact impelling the ball with his left in the other direction, thereby passing forwards when seeming to pass back!

FWIW I don't think any of the questionable bits that I have so far seen made a material difference to any overall outcome, but that said a welsh ref I know from our refs group was in France for that match and then watched the England ireland game and apparently there was apoplexy from the french about a forward pass that led to a try in that (eng Ire) match. French TV had a graphic that made it look almost like an american football style trajectory with the ball being caught some 3-4 metres in front of where it was passed from. I've no clue if it was checked though.

What caused me to comment was something I saw posted by a Scottish rugby fan where there was a very clear (short) forward pass which put an irish player through a gap then led to an important passage of play that affected the game at the time (I think maybe just prior to McVan de Merwe's binning?). This comes back to how many phases have passed before you can no longer bring play back (2 in the case of offside or forward pass). So (if it was indeed during the build up to that passage of play) you might say that McVDM would not have been sent off and indeed that the collision between Graham and Russell would not then have happened of course the likely outcome would have been scrum penalty Ireland, over in the corner and they still win the game, but who knows?

As a community ref I do think it's beholden on those who have the luxury of AR's (never mind tv tech) to get decisions correct between them. The TV genie is out of the bottle and will never go back in. The international governing body is forever tinkering with the rules - some are good, some not so good (I think that the latest thing about defensive 9 not following round takes away from the game as a whole for example) Whilst I agree there can be such a thing as too much intervention from the TMO, where something leads to a score or a sin bin that should not actually have happened, I think they have to look at it. Yes you would have to have caveats such as 5 phases after a knock on there's a head on head collision and a Red Card - no you do not rescind the red card, but you might go back for the scrum.

Finally, speaking of the new law trials, the Irish have learned fast. One directive that is already in the community game (not straight and 9 follow are not until July) is the blocking off that was going on from KO and high kicks. NZ and Ireland were masters at the lazy running business and now they have to allow access for a contest. One exception though is if a player is being lifted to catch the oppo kick off. I'm absolutely certain that from one of the (many!) scottish kick-offs there was a choreographed move by a pod of forwards who lifted the player who had zero chance of catching the ball, but in doing so they made it very easy for another player behind to catch the ball and move it away. I say bravo to their coaches for already getting around it.

Anyhow one of the benefits of being a society ref means I get to go into a ballot for international tickets (I still have to pay!) rather than take my chances on the rfu website so off To Twickenham on the 22nd to see a resurgent England no doubt brought low by a vengeful Scotland. Should be a great game.

Oh and i agree about the Welsh decline - odd really considering the regional nature of the teams when it works so very well in Ireland.
 
At slow speeds around the breakdown the movement relative to lines on the pitch is helpful. Less so for a winger at full pelt passing inside.

Let's say a fast winger is running at 7 m/s. Relative to the pitch for the ball not to move forward, and pass inside to a team mate would have to be thrown backwards at 7 m/s before any lateral movement is taken into account. So line are 100% irrelevant. Where the team mate is at the moment the pass is thrown and the direction of the hands is.
 
just for fun I looked up the two try clips (dupont and the one to lowe) and no way would I have said these were forward. What I can;t find though is the short (and forward!) one from Sunday's game. never mind. Kinley having watched the clip of the Dupont pass now I understand exactly what you are saying here. From the comments I had previously seen i had the impression he was standing still. rather than in full flow when he passed it.
 
Chris Hambleton said:
Finally, speaking of the new law trials, the Irish have learned fast. One directive that is already in the community game (not straight and 9 follow are not until July) is the blocking off that was going on from KO and high kicks. NZ and Ireland were masters at the lazy running business and now they have to allow access for a contest.
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We've sent a coaching team over to Edinburgh to get them upto speed for the Calcutta Match in 2 weeks time :p
 
After outrageously mugging the french, somehow england did it again to the scots today. It’s probably all a dastardly plot to leave england stuck with borthwick and a crap team for longer. Then again, my utter loathing for all things scots rugby leaves me willing to accept the bargain, at least for one day.
 
Wales were much more competitive today than for a long while, and their attacking moves were slick and skilful. England's defence was so poor today that they could easily be beaten by Wales if they don't improve
 
I thought that England did well on the day. They were under relentless pressure in the first half, but they didn't buckle; and then they played really well in the second half forcing errors and winning penalties. The Scots were on the back foot. It wasn't champagne rugby, but it was a thoroughly entertaining game with an engrossing battle of the back rows. That man Van de Merwe is all danger - as soon as the ball was in his hands things happened. No-one in the English backs is threatening like that.
 
Well done Wales! Clearly a side that had something to prove, that they shouldn't be written off. I was impressed by their protection of the ball at the ruck, their level of fitness much improved which transformed their desire to want to win. They harried and harried us, putting us off our game plan. Mees impressed, the front row mugged us and there was a case for at least a warning for a yellow card with 4 consecutive scrum penalties.

Persistence and patience and the ability to grind out a win saw us through though. Not pretty though. Like England's match, a wins a win. Dan puts the Calcutta match succinctly. Thoroughly enjoyed Russell's open play and decision making. He's a shoe in for the lions fly half position. Kinghorn had a great game as well.

Only to add, there was a rumour Itoje was lurking around the Scottish changing rooms before the match and came away with a pair of boots. Russell's kicking boots? :p
 
Richard you are right about McVdm being a danger. If you can see this and I can see it, why the hell the manager of an international team against whom he ran riot last time we played them at home can’t see it and pick players to combat the threat is beyond me.

Ditto Russell. We know how he’s going to play and we know if he has the ball it’s going to be dangerous. So don’t give him the ball. Don’t keep kicking it away. Again and again and again.

Oh yes and look what happens when Marcus Smith gets the ball in his hands. England were poor. Scotland were unlucky.

Rugby can be very simple - you cannot score if you don’t have the ball. So don’t keep giving it to the opposition.

With a lineout on the Scotland 22 with 3 minutes to play it should have been easy to see out the game. Instead they got the basics wrong (again) and very nearly handed over a win.

I went and had the ref link going - the ref was excellent in decision making and communication with the players.
 
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Chris Hambleton said:
the ref was excellent in decision making and communication with the players.
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Very good refereeing as you say Chris. The other thing about McVdM was that the English defense stayed too close to the breakdown and left him with acres of space in the first half. When it comes to a one-on-one, McVdM nearly always breaks the tackle in Lomu-esque style - super-dangerous. The Scots clearly had a game plan to move the ball wide and it very nearly paid off. And agreed about kicking the ball away all the time.
 
Wales and Scotland were unlucky (although missing 3 out 3 kicks is more unprofessional than unlucky these days) and deserve commiseration. Well done to Ireland and congratulations to England.
 
Still to watch the recording but don’t think I will find anything to lift the gloom of such a dire performance from the vantage point of the stands. As Dan said above, Boreswick will survive (possibly 4-1 6N record) and be found out next Autumn. The cost of replacing him would probably mean Greedy Sweeney having to forego some of his bonus.

Home again and watching England A v Ireland A on rugby pass tv. Will some of these guys be in the side in summer and autumn?
 
Chris Hambleton said:
With a lineout on the Scotland 22 with 3 minutes to play it should have been easy to see out the game. Instead they got the basics wrong (again) and very nearly handed over a win.

I went and had the ref link going - the ref was excellent in decision making and communication with the players.
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I did have an issue with that line out decision. If the rule was interpreted the way this ref did, that call could probably be made on every single line out. He made it once in the game and without any prior warning. That’s poor refereeing in my view.
 
A comment from my brother was that the breakdown was allowed to be a free for all and Ritchie thrived. Itoje picked it up too and just did the same but some inconsistency at times. Having watched Will Greenwood reel on FB I think England think they are on track - but I cannot accept Boreswick statement that England fans left happy because we won. We are seething that we have had to endure death by box kick and seen talent shackled by the lack of a plan.
 
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