- Location
- Chiang Mai
I once bought 3 bottles of '05 for £40 a pop, Never been sure whether to drink or sell and buy something else with the money.
Bordeaux EP 2023
- Thread starter David Mansfield
- Start date
- Location
- Holmfirth
I’ve not bought it since the 1990 vintage was £10 per bottle at Sainsbury’s in Dewsbury.
IIRC the 1990 grand vin was £60 per bottle en primeur at TWS. I bought it at £70 on the shelf in Oddbins Fine Wine in Edinburgh.
- Location
- Lancashire, UK
It's not a surprise to be fair. It was always coming as soon as they moved to a new warehouse and had a much better idea of the work / time / money it was costing them
- Location
- Staffordshire
I confess to buying a dozen of the 2005 EP at £25 per bottle, but recent pricing makes it a curious purchase.
- Location
- Richmond
Ha but it isn't a premium! That's the bit that I don't like. The case price is described as a case discount. With the case discount the price equals the (not discounted) price at other merchants.
I don't like that either, but I dislike the extent of the premium even more. I had been thinking I'd repeat my 2022 L&W EP purchases (1-3 bottles each of Troplong, PLL, Montrose, Conseillante) but might just buy nothing now.
@Tom Mann will you be selling single mags this year, like you did for the 2022s?
- Location
- Staffordshire
I will possibly buy two or three things in half bottles at the lower end.
As my children don’t appear to have any appetite for claret there is not much point buying things that aren’t going to be ready in my lifetime.
- Location
- Holmfirth
That seems reasonable. Today it should be, what, £50? That'd be enough to pay for the first growth's off-cuts, surely.
- Location
- West Sussex
The LW markups have put me off too as the mixed six or dozen was a very interesting way to buy Bordeaux, a region with masses of wines that can at times be a bit homogenous. I appreciate an offering like that has an overhead but I can’t imagine it’s anything close to what is being pushed.
I wonder if it’ll result in a recognisable reduction in volume for them? Probably, I guess.
I wonder if it’ll result in a recognisable reduction in volume for them? Probably, I guess.
- Location
- Lancashire, UK
Yes I will be later in the campaign. I tend to wait for a few properties to be released and then offer them together.
- Location
- Chiang Mai
Thing is if you keep an eye out they will likely end up with a 10%+ discount in some offer down the line. Just the format choice I suppose.
- Location
- Kent
Would this be a mischievous time for me to reflect upon Tom B's dictum that if you can't buy a case of 12, better not to buy the wine at all? 
- Location
- Perth, Australia
I bought three bottles I think from to 2003 vintage back in the late 2000s in Houston when they were $30-35 a bottle. Unfortunately, I was a bit impatient and they are long gone now. For what it's worth, they were very big and monolithic.
Cheers
Dave
- Location
- Belfast, Northern Ireland
Carraudes at £930 for a 6 pack, Duhart £340. What's in a name? Well according to Lafite £600!
- Location
- London
I’ve been dabbling a little… lower end halves as Ellie doesn’t drink much red anymore unless it’s a very ready Pinot or Red Burg. She’s even gone off Nebbiolo (the tannin part, she’ll smell it all day) and I’ll grab a few favourites (Haut Bailly, La Conseillante, possibly a few others although I did get some Pontet Canet already) and some halves and bottles of white at the sensible end if the discounts continue… for top end I’ve generally be backfilling where nice offers from buyback’s of cellars come along and I feel like that will be the way to go with Bordeaux.
But I suppose with my current financial situation and the fact these will all hopefully be drinking around my retirement age (although the government will probably up that by then and my own bent will be to never stop working) it’s probably less of an issue buying now rather than in the future. EP just makes a lot more sense when there is scarcity… so really does it make sense anywhere other than Burgundy or for very very tiny Boutique Californian producers?? (Don’t shoot me, those are the regions that spring to mind… I know there are others)
- Location
- London
Mouton at £2,034 per 6 IB apparently a 34% reduction. Below £2k would have been nice from a psychological perspective!
- Location
- Staffordshire
I’m wavering, despite telling myself that I wasn’t going to buy anything remotely high end.
- Location
- Belfast, Northern Ireland
Gawd bless us! It appears the days you could buy a case of 1st growth, have dinner at the Savoy and have change home for the bus from a 50 guinea note have left us forever!
- Location
- London
Indeed… I do long for the heady days where people were whinging about the price of 2008 and I was saying fill your boots “you’ll never see these prices again!” I did but not nearly enough
- Location
- London
I haven‘t done the work but my early impressions are that the price reductions are probably likely to be insufficient to clear the market, and the 2022 comparison should not necessarily be the benchmark considering how crazily priced that vintage was. It is probably worth benchmarking against 2019 as well, and when you take into account the much higher cost of carry/opportunity cost in today’s relatively high interest rate environment prices on average probably have not come down enough. As noted LLC was a 47% discount but relative to a stupidly ambitious 2022 release price and it has come in around the same as the 2019, a vintage that now has some proven pedigree and some bottle age. It would be interesting if any one has a sheet of price comparisons vs the 2022 and 2019 release prices (I am not volunteering to put it together right now but it would be interesting).
It is a relief not to be remotely tempted as was the case with the 21 and 22 vintages - I tried La Dame de Montrose 21 after I got back from France & Italy and it is quite skinny and a big step down from the 2020 though still good claret - but 2023 does seem to be like my kind of vintage and look forward to trying some in the years ahead - perhaps after a second wave price correction and a few years of being unsold and unloved?
It is a relief not to be remotely tempted as was the case with the 21 and 22 vintages - I tried La Dame de Montrose 21 after I got back from France & Italy and it is quite skinny and a big step down from the 2020 though still good claret - but 2023 does seem to be like my kind of vintage and look forward to trying some in the years ahead - perhaps after a second wave price correction and a few years of being unsold and unloved?
- Location
- London
It does seem like the critics enjoy this vintage. And my plan was always really other than a handful of producers to increase and build a vertical, was to see who was offering halves at nice prices and get some of those for down the line. I’m sure there will be plenty of opportunity to back fill with extras once the market settles.
- Location
- Cymru
L&W email says they can't recommend the price of Angelus and will only order it by special request.
have you seen the crazy price of it! only the 2022 is higher in the last 10 years.
- Location
- UK
I quite enjoyed this snippet from a merchant’s email about Angelus…
‘Angelus 2023 pricing is insulting. Yes, it’s a discount to the complete reality disconnect of 2022, but that in no way suggests 2023 is priced well. If you want to buy Angelus (a wine I personally like very much), buy 2010, 2009 or if you are more patient, 2019, 2018 or 2016. All of which are CHEAPER with storage and BETTER RATED than this release. If you MUST buy 2023 Angelus, wait 10 years, 5 years or even 3 years when you are likely to buy it cheaper. The tone deafness of this release price is insulting to anyone with a basic understanding of arithmetic.’
‘Angelus 2023 pricing is insulting. Yes, it’s a discount to the complete reality disconnect of 2022, but that in no way suggests 2023 is priced well. If you want to buy Angelus (a wine I personally like very much), buy 2010, 2009 or if you are more patient, 2019, 2018 or 2016. All of which are CHEAPER with storage and BETTER RATED than this release. If you MUST buy 2023 Angelus, wait 10 years, 5 years or even 3 years when you are likely to buy it cheaper. The tone deafness of this release price is insulting to anyone with a basic understanding of arithmetic.’
- Location
- Buckingham
I have a spreadsheet back to 2000 if you want it Ian, or anyone else for that matter. I can probably put it somewhere accessible for people, at least for a short time.
Not really sure why I'm still maintaining it as I doubt I'll ever buy Bordeaux ep again, and haven't done since '09. I think I just like the ability to put into context the claims made about reductions vs prior year for my own OCD satisfaction