Bordeaux EP 2023

Temporarily hauling the thread back from the precipice edge of page 2, I received an arresting offer for Beychevelle this morning…
To preserve quality in the Grand Vin, in 2023 the blend has the highest percentage of Cabernet Sauvignon to date for the estate and it represents only 50% of production (versus a normal 65%)
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Which could be read as saying the overall quality of fruit is down, surely?
It’s a leaner style, with drying tannins that frame the tart fruit.
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Not really selling it…
This will turn out to be very fine and especially clever looking on a table ten years from now.
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It may just be me (and for various unrelated reasons I am deeply cynical about almost everything at the moment), but do I detect a suggestion of ‘campaign fatigue’ creeping in? The feeling this year, even more than previously, that merchants are going through the motions for limited (and possibly decreasing) returns and eroded customer interest?
 
It’s broken isn’t it? I’ve not checked WS for Beychevelle back vintage pricing but DDC price arrived this morning and as expected it is cheaper to buy arguably better back vintages that will be ready sooner. Loads for sale. So why would you buy EP other than looking for halves etc?

I wonder if anyone ITB can tell us if they see an uptick in sales of past vintages during the EP window?

Sorry… sound like a stuck record….
 
Jason Michelle said:
It’s broken isn’t it? I’ve not checked WS for Beychevelle back vintage pricing but DDC price arrived this morning and as expected it is cheaper to buy arguably better back vintages that will be ready sooner. Loads for sale. So why would you buy EP other than looking for halves etc?

I wonder if anyone ITB can tell us if they see an uptick in sales of past vintages during the EP window?

Sorry… sound like a stuck record….
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I thought that too (again) and DDC would have had to be mid £40 all in to get even a consideration,

We always talk about how Chateau don't need the capital anymore but it's also true the customer now has access to a much larger array of aged wine with provenance and storage costs already paid.

We don't need them either!
 
David Mansfield said:
In a mediocre year the Merchants‘ hyperbole isn’t helping them.
it literaly is bullshit.
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Haha yes, I really appreciated a recent sales email from Beth Pearce MW regarding Angelus: ‘As such, unless you’re a huge fan of Angélus and are desperate to secure the 2023 on first release, this is hard to recommend.’

Good, it’s refreshing to see some people calling out nonsense when they see it!
 
Has anyone seen the WS offering their mixed cases EP as they did last year? It’s an option that’s quite appealing to me as I’ve had a lot of enjoyment out of second/lower wines that have done well over 10-15 years. I got a ‘Smart Seconds’ case last year I think but wondering if I’ve missed an email somewhere. Even in a mediocre year I wouldn’t mind taking a punt on a mixed case for a decent price.
 
Sarah-Beth Amos said:
Has anyone seen the WS offering their mixed cases EP as they did last year? It’s an option that’s quite appealing to me as I’ve had a lot of enjoyment out of second/lower wines that have done well over 10-15 years. I got a ‘Smart Seconds’ case last year I think but wondering if I’ve missed an email somewhere. Even in a mediocre year I wouldn’t mind taking a punt on a mixed case for a decent price.
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They have not done their main EP listing yet, think it is in June, so there is still plenty of time to be tempted by other wines whilst you wait...
 
Sarah-Beth Amos said:
Haha yes, I really appreciated a recent sales email from Beth Pearce MW regarding Angelus: ‘As such, unless you’re a huge fan of Angélus and are desperate to secure the 2023 on first release, this is hard to recommend.’

Good, it’s refreshing to see some people calling out nonsense when they see it!
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That was more in relation to the ridiculous release price… which was akin to the equally ridiculous 2022 release price.
 
Jason Michelle said:
wonder if anyone ITB can tell us if they see an uptick in sales of past vintages during the EP window?
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Jason, my outfit somewhat specialises in older Bordeaux vintages and I can assure you that 1) there is less and less interest in Bordeaux generally (at the more expensive end of the spectrum, at least) and 2) we have older vintages going back to 2005 which are receiving also very little interest, bearing in mind that prices of these are so much 'cheaper'/ better value than recent EP releases. As you say, Jason, the whole thing is 'broken' and I for one, am absolutely delighted by this!
 
Sarah-Beth Amos said:
Has anyone seen the WS offering their mixed cases EP as they did last year? It’s an option that’s quite appealing to me as I’ve had a lot of enjoyment out of second/lower wines that have done well over 10-15 years. I got a ‘Smart Seconds’ case last year I think but wondering if I’ve missed an email somewhere. Even in a mediocre year I wouldn’t mind taking a punt on a mixed case for a decent price.
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Probably a good vintage to go for a mixed case or cases.
 
David Mansfield said:
In a mediocre year the Merchants‘ hyperbole isn’t helping them.
it literaly is bullshit.
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I'll duck my ITB head back down behind the parapet in a moment but 2023 is emphatically not a mediocre vintage. I hope I'm not (or at least less) guilty of the hyperbole, which is certainly a reality but, putting commercial considerations aside for a moment, there are some extremely good 2023s. Outstanding, in parts. even.

It's not 2016 or 2019 but it's a contender amongst those in the next division and that includes some smart vintages.

Questions of pricing, whether or not to buy, are closely related but crucially different. On a purely qualitative level, 2023 is more 'bloody good' than 'mediocre' every day of the week.
 
Matthew Hemming said:
I'll duck my ITB head back down behind the parapet in a moment but 2023 is emphatically not a mediocre vintage. I hope I'm not (or at least less) guilty of the hyperbole, which is certainly a reality but, putting commercial considerations aside for a moment, there are some extremely good 2023s. Outstanding, in parts. even.

It's not 2016 or 2019 but it's a contender amongst those in the next division and that includes some smart vintages.

Questions of pricing, whether or not to buy, are closely related but crucially different. On a purely qualitative level, 2023 is more 'bloody good' than 'mediocre' every day of the week
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Thanks for coming up above the parapet and saying that Matthew. I feel considering the ability of wine makers these days to overcome the problems they come up against with the weather, mediocrity is "potentially" a thing of the past. 2023 doesn't bear any of the "mediocrity" of vintages like 2013 or 2007.
 
Sean, it's not even in the same division...

2013 is a poor, even wretched, year for most red Bordeaux. I tasted en primeur, I tasted at Southwold and I tasted at 10 years on. It's not a 'restaurant vintage', it's frankly a bit of a dog in the most part. 2007 is better but I'd take a good 2011 over anything from '07.

On the other hand, there are quite a few 2023s I'd take over their 2022 counterparts - and I say that because 2022 is widely considered a pretty strong (if mis-priced) vintage. 2023 is streets ahead of 2012, 2014 or 2017. I'd say 2009 has greater consistency but the quality of '23 is probably in line with the likes of 2010/15/18. Stylistically these are very different years, and I know there will be plenty of people critical of each of those solar vintages. That doesn't matter as each of them has clear qualitative merit and my point is 2023 can be seen alongside in terms of its quality.

I went to Bordeaux with cynicism and low expectations this year but the wines turned that around. There are commercial challenges to EP this year but the vintage is a very long way from mediocre - as a taster it is a thrilling year and the high points are, at times, extremely high.
 
Matthew Hemming said:
Sean, it's not even in the same division...

2013 is a poor, even wretched, year for most red Bordeaux. I tasted en primeur, I tasted at Southwold and I tasted at 10 years on. It's not a 'restaurant vintage', it's frankly a bit of a dog in the most part. 2007 is better but I'd take a good 2011 over anything from '07.

On the other hand, there are quite a few 2023s I'd take over their 2022 counterparts - and I say that because 2022 is widely considered a pretty strong (if mis-priced) vintage. 2023 is streets ahead of 2012, 2014 or 2017. I'd say 2009 has greater consistency but the quality of '23 is probably in line with the likes of 2010/15/18. Stylistically these are very different years, and I know there will be plenty of people critical of each of those solar vintages. That doesn't matter as each of them has clear qualitative merit and my point is 2023 can be seen alongside in terms of its quality.

I went to Bordeaux with cynicism and low expectations this year but the wines turned that around. There are commercial challenges to EP this year but the vintage is a very long way from mediocre - as a taster it is a thrilling year and the high points are, at times, extremely high.
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Matthew - thanks for your thoughts on this. Any particular things you'd be buying with an eye to 18th birthdays onwards..?
 
Sarah-Beth Amos said:
Haha yes, I really appreciated a recent sales email from Beth Pearce MW regarding Angelus: ‘As such, unless you’re a huge fan of Angélus and are desperate to secure the 2023 on first release, this is hard to recommend.’

Good, it’s refreshing to see some people calling out nonsense when they see it!
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A recent e-mail from Corney & Barrow gave me the same impression regarding pricing of DdC…
 
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Matthew I hear you. I’ve not even tasted these wines but the collective opinion of those that have and the language Merchants are using is out of Sync.

As a consumer it’s not helpful, amusing and in some cases dire. I don’t doubt there are good wines but as the current market for back vintages dictates……..you will have lots of opportunities.

The in at the cheapest model EP had been lost. Don’t buy any EP for the next ten years invest the money wisely and you will be drinking like a king in future -I assure you.
 
Christopher Piper said:
Jason, my outfit somewhat specialises in older Bordeaux vintages and I can assure you that 1) there is less and less interest in Bordeaux generally (at the more expensive end of the spectrum, at least) and 2) we have older vintages going back to 2005 which are receiving also very little interest, bearing in mind that prices of these are so much 'cheaper'/ better value than recent EP releases. As you say, Jason, the whole thing is 'broken' and I for one, am absolutely delighted by this!
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Christopher, while in the UK it is really easy to source back vintage Bordeaux at excellent prices (whether via retail or auction) I have found it difficult to do the same on the continent. French websites I have searched jack up prices on back vintages, often out of all proportion to the class of wine on offer. Grateful if you or anyone else has more sensible recommendations on the continent e.g. France or Germany. Many thanks.
 
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