Changing Relationship with Wine

Paul,

I just *love* a dose of radicalism from time to time :))))))).

Old farts like myself have quite a backlog of fine wine, so the money angle is not so important (by the way, I would never, ever sell any of my wine, whatever price it commands).

I know this: if I took a bottle of great Bordeaux, emptied it, and filled it up again with a good Bordeaux costing a tenth the price, no more that 10% of people would notice anything unusual.

I've had a considerable share of the name wines and, yes, the snob wines. Been around the block on those.
So, my view is changing too, although not quite as much as yours.

And I also like my wines increasingly younger. Yeah, I get the part about tertiary comlexity that only comes with time. But wines with fresh fruit and vigor are becoming increasingly enjoyable for me at the dinner table.

Alex R.
 
Alex - I for one would eagerly embrace OTHER PEOPLE'S expensive and rare wines. I'm more than happy to come and help you out.

When it comes to MY MONEY however, I am a little more timid in those nice wines!

I do have some nice wines in the cellar actually that, like you, I would never sell. They will hopefully be wonderful in 10-15 years and I will rejoice at my superb taste and foresight (or pure blind luck) when I drink them.
 
I can relate to many of the things written. I love to drink good wine and unfortunately it needs to be less than before, but I think I am way beyond peak nerdiness. It just doesn't give me that much pleasure any more to think about all of the finer details of soil, wine making etc.. I still like it but "the thrill is gone" as Robert Cray put it (or as Paul said "I can't be arsed") :-D.

Doesn't mean that there are bouts of wine nerdiness once in a while.
 
I think it's quite a natural progression. Many of us started out quite naïve and willing to experience anything interesting that came our way. Then we went through a phase of seeking out greatness but the fine wine price increases from 1995 to 2015 have been higher than almost any other commodity. Most of the wines we aspired to drink in our 30s are now alternatives to second homes, yachts and supercars. At the same time there has been a huge increase in the number of producers who are making really rewarding wines that are not on the radar of the super-rich. Regions that were real backwaters in the 90s are now interesting treasure-troves. Also, its a factor of maturity. Older people simply cease chasing the best-of-the-best because they get jaded with all the hype and put off by the kind of people they find themselves alongside when they do.
 
Jeremy Caan said:
There's so much interesting stuff in the £20-50 zone still.
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Indeed there is though in five years time the best of them will be £100+ and out of reach. When it was just books written by experts that were a source of information it took years for new things to emerge, develop a following and become prized classics. Then came the internet and everything speeded up, then social media and it speeded up even more.

The endless search for undiscovered gems at affordable prices is great until they get discovered. For me while I do a bit of that searching I also want to spend time in quieter waters drinking wines I like that don’t see silly price hikes. So far, mid ranked Bordeaux, German Kab/Spatlese, Rioja, Beaujolais and sherry seem to work, though even there it can get a bit silly around the edges.
 
kevin heatherington said:
Indeed there is though in five years time the best of them will be £100+ and out of reach. When it was just books written by experts that were a source of information it took years for new things to emerge, develop a following and become prized classics. Then came the internet and everything speeded up, then social media and it speeded up even more.

The endless search for undiscovered gems at affordable prices is great until they get discovered. For me while I do a bit of that searching I also want to spend time in quieter waters drinking wines I like that don’t see silly price hikes. So far, mid ranked Bordeaux, German Kab/Spatlese, Rioja, Beaujolais and sherry seem to work, though even there it can get a bit silly around the edges.
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It seems to be a few estates/crus per region but much of each region remains affordable.
 
The overall quality has been increasing - definitely the case here in Austria. If one wine goes out of the reasonable price bracket, there is a lot of new stuff available from growers that move to a more quality based approach (next generation in the family..). So price-wise I think there are still many options for good quality - the top end gets out of sight.
But it is true that ambitious new joiners in the market move from cheap to expensive really fast, propelled by the internet (and the accelerating hype cycles).
 
You’d think that there’d be a finite market for expensive wines, which ought to limit the scope for improving producers (or the secondary market) to jack up their prices. I realise that the marketplace has expanded but even so I’d have thought there would be only so much demand.

Places like this are great for getting an inside track on which new or regenerated producers are worth following before the world catches on. Similarly it always pleases me when I go to an up-and-coming restaurant shortly before it gains a Michelin star.
 
Robert Ruzitschka said:
But it is true that ambitious new joiners in the market move from cheap to expensive really fast, propelled by the internet (and the accelerating hype cycles).
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Certainly propelled by the visibility and access the internet offers, but also no doubt thanks to the automated pricing mechanisms in play at some traders.

I am prone to believe that deliberate manipulation is also in play as well as accelerating social media hype. Easier done if the fast movers are new and very small, much cheaper and faster to inflate a very small balloon.

The only recourse is simply not to buy if the price gets too high and you can stand the FOMO
 
15 years ago I was drinking German Riesling + bits and pieces and now still continue drinking German Riesling + bits and pieces. My German Riesling has become older and more diverse and "bits and pieces" no longer include things like Oyster Bay SB, featuring instead lots of far more interesting bottles from many corners of the world in the £10-30 range.

I cam definitely a lot more strict with the budget these days. 20 quid or less and I have no idea what it tastes like? Two bottles please. 30 pounds onwards? I want a guarantee it'll blow my socks off.

By far the most expensive bottle I have ever purchased was 1993 Château Pajzos Tokaji Esszencia. And knowing how much blood and sweat goes into this type of wine, I am extremely reluctant to pay similar money per cl for a cheapish (in this context) GC/First Growth.
I guess my ignorance is a blessing as I just don't know what I have been missing.
 
Raymond Tilney said:
Debbi tells me that the taste of Coca-Cola/Diet Coke from the glass 250ml bottles is superior to other formats.
I get her those as a treat around Christmas as they are over a Quid a piece!
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She is right! The permeability of crown cap makes for a softer mousse! It is why champagne aged on lees with cork is more reductive (cork is a better closure than crown cap) :D
 
Ilya L e n y o v said:
By far the most expensive bottle I have ever purchased was 1993 Château Pajzos Tokaji Esszencia. And knowing how much blood and sweat goes into this type of wine, I am extremely reluctant to pay similar money per cl for a cheapish (in this context) GC/First Growth.
I guess my ignorance is a blessing as I just don't know what I have been missing.
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You might not have participated in the Forumite consortium purchase in 2010 from B.I? I have a solitary 10cl bottle remaining, reserved for a relative who has missed out on previous occasions. It is a stunning wine.
 
Mark Carrington said:
You might not have participated in the Forumite consortium purchase in 2010 from B.I? I have a solitary 10cl bottle remaining, reserved for a relative who has missed out on previous occasions. It is a stunning wine.
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Unfortunately not as I wasn't aware of the forum at the time. I have been reading wine pages for a couple of years now, but I only registered a few months ago.
And it is a stunning wine indeed, I bought it from jnwine back in 2013. With regards to B.I. my first order there was 2012 Dönnhoff, so I definitely missed that offer.
 
Colin Bradley said:
You’d think that there’d be a finite market for expensive wines, which ought to limit the scope for improving producers (or the secondary market) to jack up their prices. I realise that the marketplace has expanded but even so I’d have thought there would be only so much demand.

Places like this are great for getting an inside track on which new or regenerated producers are worth following before the world catches on. Similarly it always pleases me when I go to an up-and-coming restaurant shortly before it gains a Michelin star.
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You'd think so but I've found that in many regions, the opposite is true. The highest priced wines sell well, it's the ones in the next tier down that struggle. There is always a market for the most expensive wines from a given region because there are always customers wanting to see how good they are or just assuming they are the most expensive because they are the best.
 
Jonathan Hesford said:
I think it's quite a natural progression. Many of us started out quite naïve and willing to experience anything interesting that came our way. Then we went through a phase of seeking out greatness but the fine wine price increases from 1995 to 2015 have been higher than almost any other commodity. Most of the wines we aspired to drink in our 30s are now alternatives to second homes, yachts and supercars. At the same time there has been a huge increase in the number of producers who are making really rewarding wines that are not on the radar of the super-rich. Regions that were real backwaters in the 90s are now interesting treasure-troves. Also, its a factor of maturity. Older people simply cease chasing the best-of-the-best because they get jaded with all the hype and put off by the kind of people they find themselves alongside when they do.
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Great post.

The great wines that I have that I accumulated in the 1980s, 1990s, and aughts are wines that I want to share with younger people who are passionate about wine because there is no other way they will ever get to experience them and add to their base of knowledge.
 
Claude Kolm said:
Great post.

The great wines that I have that I accumulated in the 1980s, 1990s, and aughts are wines that I want to share with younger people who are passionate about wine because there is no other way they will ever get to experience them and add to their base of knowledge.
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By this act of sharing you help the young appreciate our folly (I mean pursuit) so that there can be mutual undertstanding between the generations.
 
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