Corkage @ Restaurants policy

Phil David said:
As Leon says, go somewhere else - or don't BYO. The pomposity and indication that corkage is offered under sufferance tell you that.
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Agreed. But I also see a breathtaking sense of entitlement that it’s just fine to bring your own wine to a restaurant. Why not take along a couple of steaks from your local farm shop too and get the chef to cook them for you as well?

If I was a restaurateur that had put time and effort and money into building a wine list I was proud of I would have absolutely zero interest in letting people bring their own wine (other than to a ‘wine event’ as Tom B said earlier). The whole corkage thing for a normal meal out with your partner or friends is just a little bit gauche for me.
 
Adam Holland said:
I also see a breathtaking sense of entitlement that it’s just fine to bring your own wine to a restaurant. Why not take along a couple of steaks from your local farm shop too and get the chef to cook them for you as well?
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I wouldn't quite go as far as calling the assumption breathtaking but it can sometimes seem that all the implications have not necessarily been considered.
I can easily think of a few restaurants where one drank superbly but to which one would have liked to bring one's own food.
 
Adam Holland said:
Agreed. But I also see a breathtaking sense of entitlement that it’s just fine to bring your own wine to a restaurant. Why not take along a couple of steaks from your local farm shop too and get the chef to cook them for you as well?

If I was a restaurateur that had put time and effort and money into building a wine list I was proud of I would have absolutely zero interest in letting people bring their own wine (other than to a ‘wine event’ as Tom B said earlier). The whole corkage thing for a normal meal out with your partner or friends is just a little bit gauche for me.
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It's fine to bring your own wine if the restaurant's fine with it, that's how I feel. It's entirely their prerogative. I only take wine to organised events now, it's too much bother doing so for anything else. And I definitely wouldn't take steak to a restaurant, that's one thing I could be reasonably confident of preparing at home to an acceptable standard!
 
Adam Holland said:
Agreed. But I also see a breathtaking sense of entitlement that it’s just fine to bring your own wine to a restaurant. Why not take along a couple of steaks from your local farm shop too and get the chef to cook them for you as well?
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I don't agree at all with the comparison between taking your own wine and taking your own food. When you choose a restaurant, you are choosing to eat the chef's food, that's why you are there. But wine is a different matter - it merely accompanies and in some cases enhances the food.

I think it would only be "breathtaking entitlement" to expect to take your own wine and not pay to do so.

Personally I have no issue whether restaurants do or don't offer corkage, it is their prerogative, but I do generally ask. It always stuns me though how many places are inherently suspicious and immediately dismissive of it - as though you are somehow conning them.
 
Gareth Germain said:
@Adam Holland I see nothing wrong in asking if a restaurant does corkage and would feel no ire if they did not. Hardly a breathtaking sense of arrogance. What a stupid and foolhardy phrase.
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Agreed ridiculous. I don’t go to restaurants unless they allow corkage, as rarely do restaurants have wine that is mature enough for my taste. Perfectly happy to pay £100 a bottle corkage if the quality of the restaurant/location deserves this. And we eat out about 3 times a week both here ( where corkage is often zero charge or nominal ) and the UK .
 
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Gareth Germain said:
@Adam Holland I see nothing wrong in asking if a restaurant does corkage and would feel no ire if they did not. Hardly a breathtaking sense of arrogance. What a stupid and foolhardy phrase.
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Who said arrogance? Not me. Arrogance is a character trait; what I mean by breathtaking sense of entitlement is the idea that it’s somehow quite normal behaviour to take your own wine to restaurants.

Within this wine community that may seem so but my point is that in the wider world, it’s absolutely not. In terms of normative behaviour it’s we that are the outliers and not the restaurants.

Taken in that context that’s why so many places are as Richard W describes:

It always stuns me though how many places are inherently suspicious and immediately dismissive of it - as though you are somehow conning them.
 
Adam Holland said:
Who said arrogance? Not me. Arrogance is a character trait; what I mean by breathtaking sense of entitlement is the idea that it’s somehow quite normal behaviour to take your own wine to restaurants.

Within this wine community that may seem so but my point is that in the wider world, it’s absolutely not. In terms of normative behaviour it’s we that are the outliers and not the restaurants.

Taken in that context that’s why so many places are as Richard W describes:

It always stuns me though how many places are inherently suspicious and immediately dismissive of it - as though you are somehow conning them.
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It is in some countries. Not the UK, though.
 
Richard Ward said:
I don't agree at all with the comparison between taking your own wine and taking your own food. When you choose a restaurant, you are choosing to eat the chef's food, that's why you are there. But wine is a different matter - it merely accompanies and in some cases enhances the food.

I think it would only be "breathtaking entitlement" to expect to take your own wine and not pay to do so.

Personally I have no issue whether restaurants do or don't offer corkage, it is their prerogative, but I do generally ask. It always stuns me though how many places are inherently suspicious and immediately dismissive of it - as though you are somehow conning them.
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It shouldn’t be a surprise. For many venues with those four little words ‘Do you do corkage?’ you are simultaneously criticising their wine selection and wanting to deprive them of part of their profit margin.

This may not be the reality but it is the perception that matters.
 
Adam Holland said:
Who said arrogance? Not me. Arrogance is a character trait; what I mean by breathtaking sense of entitlement is the idea that it’s somehow quite normal behaviour to take your own wine to restaurants.

Within this wine community that may seem so but my point is that in the wider world, it’s absolutely not. In terms of normative behaviour it’s we that are the outliers and not the restaurants.

Taken in that context that’s why so many places are as Richard W describes:

It always stuns me though how many places are inherently suspicious and immediately dismissive of it - as though you are somehow conning them.
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This is not an answer to the OP, rather a view about how we on here react to this old Chestnut.

Of course we on this forum are the outliers, just that often we huff and puff at accepting it.

It really is not normal behaviour to turn up at any venue where a transaction model is occurring and have about your person something that is normally the role of the other party to provide.

However once we accept if we can, that it is we who are being a bit different it is often possible to strike a balance by say buying off list and augmenting those choices with something special to us that the restaurant may not be able to offer. (there can be anyone of a million reasons around this).

It is gracious of an establishment to agree, but their prerogative to decline.

Wine centric bookings or events are a different kettle of fish and many on here have excellent mutually beneficial arrangements and understandings with places they support regularly and who accommodate our brand of oddity.

But to make a normal reservation at a regular restaurant and expect corkage as some sort of a right we should not be surprised if the restaurants default position is suspicion that we are indeed trying to con them.

When looking for a corkage arrangement I think things start best if we accept that it is slightly odd behaviour.
 
I go against the grain here - I think it is arrogant to expect to take your own wine to a restaurant - unless of course it doesn't have a licence. What next bring your own beef? I don't understand that mentality - really what is being said is I don't want to pay the prices. I want the whole experience of food and atmosphere but I want to drink my own wine. I had a "discussion" with someone on here who thought the restaurant was out of order because they would double decant his Lafite at precisely the time he wanted it doing and he wanted to see it happening!! Sometimes we take what should be a pleasure in life too seriously. This isn't life or death or even a major purchase in reality why are some so precious about it?
 
How about the concept of 'I really want to eat the food cooked and presented by this restaurant team and their winelist doesn't have anything on it that I find exciting or interesting but I do have something in the cellar that I think would be a joy to drink and enhance the experience. I am also prepared to pay a reasonable fee to do so.'

I don't expect to take my own wine - as I think most people here would agree it is entirely up to the restaurant if they will or will not do corkage. We should not expect it as a right at all - it isn't, it is entirely discretionary.

As an alternative view to 'you are simultaneously criticising their wine selection and wanting to deprive them of part of their profit margin' how about 'You are simultaneously recognising that their cooking is exemplary and worthy of something treasured from your cellar and are quite prepared to pay for it'

Of course restaurant margins are very tight on food and they quite reasonably seek to get a good return on investment in their wine list. What is a good return though? I'm well aware that very few people on the planet walk around with the sort of knowledge about wine prices that I do and that I am very fortunate to be able to go to restaurants that are 'destinations'. I am never going to spend three or four times the cost of my food on a bottle of wine though. I may well spend the same as my food cost though and given that a margin of anywhere between £25 and £50 will be levied on that wine choice, how is the restaurant losing out?

I can see the counter-argument that my bottle of 1995 Ardanza that I bought years ago for £20 would snare the restaurant £200 if I bought it off the list, but the point is I simply wouldn't buy it. Now if that bottle were offered to me at say £80 on the list I might very well buy two.
 
Jeremy Caan said:
Brilliant!

Have you been and is the food as good as the idea?
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We’ll, the irony is that they have one of the worlds great wine lists (imho).

The food is a little curious, as their concept is that everything (except salt, pepper and wine) must come from within 30km (iirc) of the restaurant. I’ve been 2-3 times and loved it. But not for a decade.
 
It nonsense IMHO to suggest that asking for corkage is inferring the restaurant wine list is not good enough . If one explains that you wish to bring a special bottle that no restaurant could possibly be expected to list, then any sensible restaurant should welcome that subject, of course , to paying whatever corkage charge they wish to impose.
Actually, I rarely ask as most restaurants I frequent allow corkage as a matter of policy.
 
It's absolutely at the discretion of the restaurant but it's always fine to ask imo. I have a bit of a special arrangement with our usual restaurant of choice, to bring our own, but that's because we supply about a third of their wine list, so paying 4 x mark up on something we have already paid for and sold to them would be very weird, so they let me bring my own for £10 corkage. I have a feeling they wouldn't agree to corkage as a general rule, unless it's a special event or offline.
 
Adam Holland said:
Who said arrogance? Not me. Arrogance is a character trait; what I mean by breathtaking sense of entitlement is the idea that it’s somehow quite normal behaviour to take your own wine to restaurants.

Within this wine community that may seem so but my point is that in the wider world, it’s absolutely not. In terms of normative behaviour it’s we that are the outliers and not the restaurants.

Taken in that context that’s why so many places are as Richard W describes:

It always stuns me though how many places are inherently suspicious and immediately dismissive of it - as though you are somehow conning them.
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Sorry for the misquote. I think it’s safe to say that quite a few people disagree with your statement and find your understanding insulting. So why don’t we leave it there?
 
Richard Ward said:
I don't agree at all with the comparison between taking your own wine and taking your own food. When you choose a restaurant, you are choosing to eat the chef's food, that's why you are there. But wine is a different matter - it merely accompanies and in some cases enhances the food.

I think it would only be "breathtaking entitlement" to expect to take your own wine and not pay to do so.

Personally I have no issue whether restaurants do or don't offer corkage, it is their prerogative, but I do generally ask. It always stuns me though how many places are inherently suspicious and immediately dismissive of it - as though you are somehow conning them.
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I don't agree Richard - you are going to restaurant for the whole experience - yes the food is primary reason but the surroundings the quality of the staff and their knowledge are also very important ingredients to a top meal. Would you like your food with plastic knives and forks? All this stuff costs most restaurants you go to will have more than an adequate wine list. Would you suggest taking your own wine to Core?
 
Adam Ventress said:
It's absolutely at the discretion of the restaurant but it's always fine to ask imo. I have a bit of a special arrangement with our usual restaurant of choice, to bring our own, but that's because we supply about a third of their wine list, so paying 4 x mark up on something we have already paid for and sold to them would be very weird, so they let me bring my own for £10 corkage. I have a feeling they wouldn't agree to corkage as a general rule, unless it's a special event or offline.
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Wont they just let you swap?
 
Adam Ventress said:
It's absolutely at the discretion of the restaurant but it's always fine to ask imo. I have a bit of a special arrangement with our usual restaurant of choice, to bring our own, but that's because we supply about a third of their wine list, so paying 4 x mark up on something we have already paid for and sold to them would be very weird,
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Delighted you have an arrangement with them, but I don't see anything weird about it at all. At least you won't be quite as ripped off as the general punters...
 
David Bywater said:
Would you suggest taking your own wine to Core?
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I didn't actually ask at Core, as they have a fantastic selection by the glass at very reasonable prices. But I have asked, and in some cases taken wine to, 2* & 3* restaurants. I don't expect this to be cheap - I understand the cost of running and fitting out a restaurant - I think the most I've ever paid was £65 per bottle at The Fat Duck, but I was perfectly happy with that. We took 2 supreme bottles plus ordered a couple of extra glasses from the list, and it enhanced some of the best food I've ever eaten. But if they'd said no to corkage, I'd have been fine with that too.
 
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