DIAM - yes please!

Not seen a thread on this on the new Forum.

Picking up from a few comments on the Burg 2014 thread about which producers use DIAM, and how that would be a part of whether you purchased the wines or not.....

I am very pro-DIAM - had a lot of crappy poxed wines from wines that should have been on top form - Grand Cru Chablis etc.

Just to confirm my predisposition, in a highly unscientific sample size of 1, tonight I opened a 2013 Moreau St Aubin 1er Cru En Remilly - it showed very mature notes, borderline poxed that really flattened the wine.
It was sealed with cork. I'd be worried to leave in a cellar much longer. Second time with this wine.

Last week I had a Pillot St Aubin 1er Cru 2013 fresh as a daisy.

The wines were a word apart. (Yes, I know not a consistent/large enough sample size)...

For my money, if a white Burg is now not sealed with DIAM I do not buy it these days.

I know DIAM is not proven to be the answer, but I've not had a spoiled one yet....

Ok - lets go!
 
Paul, I can see where you are coming from. I am no expert, but I did read something of a critical nature recently, in fact only in the last week. But I can't recall where right now, either Decanter or World of Fine Wine. The basic argument was that some Diam bottles either taste or smell of glue. I have never found this and I really wish I could remember where I read it. If I do find the article, I'll come back.
 
both diam and screw caps prevent use with a coravin - so I would only buy cork...

I thought that newer developments in how they produce cork prevented many issues - so surely it is about what a company choses to do with the cork which is worth assessing?

Alasdair
 
There have been articles that include comments mainly anecdotal relating to the glue used in the assembly of DIAM corks including a reference by a competitor [IIRC] in the USA to the FDA who then had a detailed response from DIAM. I understand the FDA and EPA have been contacted by those claiming that the glue should be considered a potential problem.

While there are certainly a few individual, anecdotal negative claims about a 'taste effect' [mainly from Down Under although others from there have been supportive] I have not, as yet, seen anything backed by tests or anything negative from the FDA and EPA.

OTOH major organisations like Bouchard/Fevre, Jadot, Hugel et al have converted to DIAM for all or a substantial part of their production after many years of trials. For example William Fevre began with their lower level wines before moving up to their 1er Crus before finally including their GCs - a 100% conversion.

Andrew Jefford wrote a Decanter article in August 2014 that covered this subject in some detail.
 
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"I usually breathe a sigh of relief when discovering that a closure is DIAM.".....I couldn't agree more. When I was studying oenology I did some work experience at a winery in NZ who were told me about these new corks called DIAM's and that they were planning to use them on their pinot and rieslings. I had their '06 PN on Christmas day and it was sensational, still alive with plenty of fruit but some lovely bottle development which I just don't see on antipodean PN of the same age.

I also had a high profile winemaker tell me they tainted a wine with glue flavours, but I've never seen it and am not at all convinced of it personally (on cheap agglomerates yes but not DIAM). I suspect it is spin from the stelvin and/or traditional cork lobbyists.
 
I've used DIAM for about 6 years now. I think it's a great product. The factory is only 20 minutes from where I live and they also have an option to use Roussillon cork, which I do. I've not noticed a glue aroma in either red or white wine. It does make the wines more closed than they were under natural cork but winemaking decisions can alter that.
I still use natural cork for my top reds thought. Why? Because they are wines which need to develop in the bottle and the increased oxidation from cork seems to help that. Also, a natural cork imparts a slight oak character to the wine, which I quite like.

My feeling about the stories coming out of New Zealand about TCA and glue flavours is because several wineries there are signed-up members of the Screwcap Alliance.
 
If a Diam 30 is used how does the wine age surely it just prevents ageing?
DIAM now offer different oxtrans levels for their various numerically [3, 5, 10.....30] 'named' still wine closures.

The new 30 is claimed to have an appropriately low oxtrans that is consistent with the ability to allow wines intended of long term ageing to develop in the desired fashion i.e. it doesn't 'prevent ageing'.
 
My question on the Diam 30 would be whether the elasticity can last that long. The corks seem very well-made though. I have hundreds of them lying outside in the garden and they don't disintegrate.
Not that many natural corks last well for 30 years anyway.
 
Isn't there plenty of glue used to make a non-DIAM composite cork anyway (i.e. layering)?

I had a whole sequence of Deutz Champagnes that were "corked", yet stoppered with DIAM. As Nigel Groundwater pointed out to me in an ancient WP thread, the cork isn't the only source for destructive compounds found in a wine.
 
I've used DIAM for about 6 years now. I think it's a great product. The factory is only 20 minutes from where I live and they also have an option to use Roussillon cork, which I do.
Domaine de Montesquiou have been sealing all of their wines under DIAM for almost 10 years now. They are (by far) my best-selling grower and I have not had - or heard of - one single issue of any type with their wines. Several others have also switched to DIAM - not because I suggested it, but because they are sensible and forward-thinking :D. However, I think I can claim at least a little of the credit for Domaine Treloar switching to DIAM closures (for all except Motus and Tahi, if I remember correctly) since I had been banging on about them to Jonathan for ages, before he switched.:)

My feeling about the stories coming out of New Zealand about TCA and glue flavours is because several wineries there are signed-up members of the Screwcap Alliance.
There seems to be an almost evangelical (or even mafioso) attitude about the "advantages" of screwcaps from Antipodean growers, to the extent where they make up these stories about glue, TCA etc in DIAM-sealed wines. All of which appear to be anecdotal at best and scurrilous at worst. In my opinion, there are drawbacks with screwcaps that will eventually see their popularity wane - mainly in terms of wines made for ageing, and especially reds.

Just to be clear, I am no apologist for "real" (i.e. single piece) cork closures. Despite the fact that the cork growers/suppliers have cleaned-up their act, I don't think they will ever completely eradicate the possibility of TCA or (at least equally importantly) bottle variation. But I think that the screwcap revolution has reached its apogee, whereas DIAM is definitely on a roll. My prediction is that DIAM will, over the next 10 years or so, become the industry standard. And no, I don't have shares in the company...... though maybe I should buy some!:D
 
This is from the hip and has no scientific base.
I have not had a faulty wine under Diam, nor have I had a truly special one.
There may be a myriad of factors in play but that is what I have witnessed.
Even quite expensive and prestigious wines sealed under Diam seem to have something missing, maybe in Hi-fi terms I miss the colouration of cork.
For exampleI used to drink Billecart Salmon Rose on a weekly basis and have not had a great one since they made the change to Diam about 5 years ago, I don't bother drinking it now.

Maybe wines sealed under cork will become like music on vinyl?
 
That's quite an assertion Raymond. I'd say there's an abundance of scientific data behind the different closures and the pros and cons etc.
Leon and Jonathan obviously see the long term effects of DIAM. I work in winemaking and have seen it too, admittedly my livelihood is not staked on it as closely as theirs.
I think you raise an interesting point.....do you really want your wine to have a cork taste imparted or to taste purely of the wine? To me that's where DIAM works well in that to me it comes across as pretty neutral.
 
That's quite an assertion Raymond. I'd say there's an abundance of scientific data behind the different closures and the pros and cons etc.
Leon and Jonathan obviously see the long term effects of DIAM. I work in winemaking and have seen it too, admittedly my livelihood is not staked on it as closely as theirs.
I think you raise an interesting point.....do you really want your wine to have a cork taste imparted or to taste purely of the wine? To me that's where DIAM works well in that to me it comes across as pretty neutral.

Duncan,
Hence my first line re non scientific.
Also, we do drink mainly champagne and white wines and many of the top producers have not gone down the Diam route, at least for the top wines, so that may skew my experience.
I can understand that many in the wine trade would support something that cuts down on wastage..... but then I am only in the drinking business.
 
DIAM is grear. Smell it -- no smell at all, unlike the dirty smell you get from cork. I don't want that dirty undercurrent taste in my wines, tho' I understand people may have become used to it and miss it. But to me it's a fault.

We had 13 nights in Lanzarote last month with a bottle every night, i.e. 13 wines all closed with natural cork. Three of them were obviously corked. Another may have had low level or was just very closed.

3 out of 13 wines ruined by cork.

I am with Paul, if it doesn't have a screwcap then I want to see the letters DIAM on the closure.
 
I have to say I'm generally not too fussed for DIAM on red wines, although I have seen them. White Burgs though - I want them on all my Chablis etc.

Any reason why DIAM is used less on red? I presume something to do with white wine being more prone to oxidation?
 
You can't judge a closure on the kind of wines that it's been used for.
20 years ago there were no really great wines on the market under screwcap.

DIAM hasn't been around long enough for it to have been adopted by the best producers and even if they had, those wines would still be too young.

I did a trial last year with Motus under DIAM and natural cork. Mourvedre is a variety that ages very slowly so it will be interesting to see what happens over time.

People who buy expensive wine like cork. Preferably beautiful long corks. The length has absolutely no influence on the wine but wine connoisseurs think it does. Therefore if you are making an expensive wine, you would be silly to use DIAM at the moment.
 
We had 13 nights in Lanzarote last month with a bottle every night, i.e. 13 wines all closed with natural cork. Three of them were obviously corked. Another may have had low level or was just very closed. 3 out of 13 wines ruined by cork.
That's one of the inconveniences of dining in on holiday - deciding how many spares to have in case of TCA, and how many you'll have left over at the end #firstWorldProblem
 
Jonathan - I agree with the expensive wine thing if the wine is red - I'd be a bit confused if I opened an Haut Brion and it was a DIAM. However, do you think the expectation is changing with regards to white wine?
 
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