My own experiences (all pre-1997 vintages) were that DRC GE were much better than Echézeaux and I even ranked GE higher than RSV, at least before 1997. In fact my first aha moment in Burgundy was no less than a 1990 GE consumed in 1996, I rushed out and bought a mixed case of DRC 1990 vintage soon after.
Echézeaux versus Grands Echézeaux?
- Thread starter Alex Rychlewski
- Start date
- Location
- London
From what I gather the great advance in DRC Echezeaux has been in this millennium, though my (delightful) experience is limited to 00 and 07; I suspect that the GE remains the grander wine, though, as it should.
Many moons ago we used to host dinner parties where I’d serve say 16 wines blind, made with 16 different varieties for 8 of us, so pretty boozy affairs. I served 1980 DRC Échézaux at one of these. I think it was my only bottle and no memory of how it was or if anyone guessed PN even. Sacrilege!
- Location
- Aldeburgh
My first experience of DRC Echézeaux. Turnberry Hotel dinner Easter 1994 , bottle of 1990 bought off the list
For £100 , in the days when it didn’t sell through (apparently) at C B. Just doesn’t seem credible.
the wine was absolutely stunning. Some of the most concentrated Pinot I have ever had,
For £100 , in the days when it didn’t sell through (apparently) at C B. Just doesn’t seem credible.
the wine was absolutely stunning. Some of the most concentrated Pinot I have ever had,
We used to pay around S$400 (around £150 in ‘96-‘98) at Les Amis/Vinum Singapore.
- Location
- Dorset, England
The only DRC's I have tried (tasted) are Echezeaux & GE, not side by side.
I have limited familiarity with René Engel & whilst his E has been very good indeed, the GE is a notch better. We took a bottle of GE '90 on our first trip to Burgundy - the enjoyment it provided endures in the memory.
Edit. Price is in handwritten records, but CT shows I paid £20 for E '98* (FWW) & £40 for GE '02 (CdB - NSG).
Those were the days.............
* A positive note from me for a '98! Opened this alongside my only Bass Phillip Premium '98, with the latter justing edging it.
I have limited familiarity with René Engel & whilst his E has been very good indeed, the GE is a notch better. We took a bottle of GE '90 on our first trip to Burgundy - the enjoyment it provided endures in the memory.
Edit. Price is in handwritten records, but CT shows I paid £20 for E '98* (FWW) & £40 for GE '02 (CdB - NSG).
Those were the days.............
* A positive note from me for a '98! Opened this alongside my only Bass Phillip Premium '98, with the latter justing edging it.
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- Location
- Somerset
We've notched prices up a tad since then, I'm afraid!
- Location
- London, UK
Perhaps you should try more upscale Chilean Pinot Noir?
Sorry to be late to this -- I was offline yesterday. They are definitely different wines. Echézeaux is much more varied as a terroir, but generally, I find it perhaps a bit lighter and more sensual than Grands Echézeaux. In contrast, the latter has darker fruit, greater density, has a distinct licorice or réglisse element.
Back in the 1980s, Domaine de la Romanée-Conti had two wines in its line up that were below the others in relative quality -- Romanée-Saint-Vivant and Echézeaux. With the acquisition of the Romanée-Saint-Viant vines in the late 1980s, the Domaine could begin make the changes necessary and that wine soon was restored to its rightful full grandeur. The Echézaux nevertheless continued to rarely to compete for best wine from its appellation in any given year. That situation changed maybe ten years or so ago (sorry, I haven't gone back to check my notes on exactly when) -- I noted that to Aubert de Villaine when we were tasting together and he agreed, explaining that the Domaine had begun to make extra efforts with its Echézeaux.
Back in the 1980s, Domaine de la Romanée-Conti had two wines in its line up that were below the others in relative quality -- Romanée-Saint-Vivant and Echézeaux. With the acquisition of the Romanée-Saint-Viant vines in the late 1980s, the Domaine could begin make the changes necessary and that wine soon was restored to its rightful full grandeur. The Echézaux nevertheless continued to rarely to compete for best wine from its appellation in any given year. That situation changed maybe ten years or so ago (sorry, I haven't gone back to check my notes on exactly when) -- I noted that to Aubert de Villaine when we were tasting together and he agreed, explaining that the Domaine had begun to make extra efforts with its Echézeaux.
- Location
- Johnny Foreigner
I'd say that the DRC Echézeaux has been on great form since at least 2005, Claude - but I like your use of the word 'sensual' - a more graphic impression than my 'more Vosne-like' but I think with similar purpose...
May well be that far back, Bill. As I said, I haven't gone back to look at my notes and the years are passing so fast these days . . .
- Location
- London
The DRC ech. 88 you opened in 2017 was already great... as was the Dujac Ech. 88 you opened next to it as well Howard!
The problem with Echezeaux is, irrespective of the quality of the producer, there is also a wide variety of terroirs, some of them not quite fit for grand cru.
Once an Echezeaux is sourced from a good producer having a plot in a good area, is there still a big gap between DRC and others?
- Location
- Preston, UK
Chiu, Monsieur Nanson of this parish included reference to JP's 2017 in a tasting of 28 (mostly) Echezeaux on his Burgundy-Report.com website 20/6/2019 but as that's 'behind' the subscription 'paywall' I can say no more !
The earliest vintage on the estate's website is 2001. The plot is located in Champs Traversins. I've been impressed in recent vintages.
- Location
- Henley on Thames
Isn't the crux of the matter not that, rather than looking at the two wines on a linear scale, one superior to the other, that they are quite different? I have always thought of GE as a stricter, more structured, masculine wine and Ech the ephemeral, elegant one. Mind you, in terms of quality, Ech covers a large and variable area, a fair portion of which might not be classified as grand cru if the classification were being done now.
I'd add gaminess to my description of many GE, something that does not appear in Echézeaux.
- Location
- Johnny Foreigner
I’m with Claude, I think it one of the top renditions in the last few vintages - despite their generously extracted and oaked approach to reds...
That said, given their pricing, they seem to know that; they sometimes (justifiably) show it after their theoretically ‘grander’ wines - including Musigny!
[Edit:]The vines are indeed in Champs Traversins – nearby Poulaillères is all DRC - the vines have been in the domaine since 1996.
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- Location
- London
Back in the day, and I mean sometime in the 70's, it was possible to buy DRC's from their agent Lebegue. It seemed expensive at the time, but in todays terms was a pittance , I bought 10 mags of Romanée Conti 1966. Can you imagine that? When I started importing burgundy in 1983, I put one mag on my list for the then immense sum of £100. I was amazed when someone actually bought it nat that "crazy" price ! So I put another mag on my list for £200 and that sold too! After that I slowed the sale of this wonderful wine and opened a few at home for my best wine loving friends. The last bottle was opened on May16th 2009. I still have the empty bottle on which I noted the guests.
Simon Beatty was one of them! As the song said, "those were the days my friend, we thought they would never end" But of course, they did!
Simon Beatty was one of them! As the song said, "those were the days my friend, we thought they would never end" But of course, they did!