Help identifying a bottle of Chateauneuf

[kevin heatherington]

I recently bought a bottle of Chateauneuf du Pape at auction that is missing its label. It is believed from the 1980s and the colour of the wine in the bottle would certainly suggest it has some age to it. It has the moulded Chateauneuf emblem on the bottle. The capsule is also intact and says Chateauneuf du Pape 84.02 on it. On the red capsule there are three gold bands at the bottom and the Chateauneuf emblem.

In doing some searches the closest I can find to this is Domaine du Pegau. Are there others with a similar capsule? Did Pegau use different capsules for their Cuvée Laurence compared to their Cuvée Réservée? And, as it is a while since I’ve had a Pegau and before I go cutting the capsule, does anyone know if they put the date on the cork?

Thanks in advance.

 

[kevin heatherington]

Additional note, Pegau put their name of the capsule at least as far back as the 1995 vintage but I’ve seen pictures of earlier vintages (i.e 1990) which don’t appear to have this.

 

[Tom King]

Pierre André appears to have the similar three lines & emblem on the foil, but I can't find many older images to compare with

 

[Russ Sainty]

Could you remove the capsule and see the cork?

 

[kevin heatherington]

I will do when I’m ready to drink it, just got it, so it needs to rest for a month or so, just trying to find out if it is obvious what it is or not (Tom’s post would now suggest it isn’t).

 

[Stephen Locke]

Looks like Vieux Donjon to me.
I have a 2000 bottle in front of me and the capsule design is identical except the number on the top of the capsule is 84.03

 

[GuyD'nis]

I think that perhaps Stephen wines the prize. See: 1984 vieux donjon - Google Search

 

[Ben Coffman]

I suspect that all CdPs have 84 on them as that is the Department number for Vaucluse. Most CdP postcodes are either 842xx or 843xx.

 

[kevin heatherington]

I know that Pegau put their name on their corks, do Vieux Donjon or Pierre Andre do the same? My fear is I’ll cut the capsule and it will just say something generic.

 

[Ben Coffman]

Could you cut the capsule as far as the bottom of the wider part, and peer through the glass?

 

[Stephen Locke]

Makes me realise how little attention I pay to corks!
I'm pretty sure VD put their name on the side of a cork, but no markings on the top.
Mind you - a while since I had one from the 80s

 

[Thom Blach]

Could you cut the capsule as far as the bottom of the wider part, and peer through the glass?

Or cut it all off, it has no preservative purpose.

 

[Stephen Locke]

........or possibly slide it off and then slide it back on the bottle

 

[kevin heatherington]

Given the capsule design would appear to be common to more than one producer it is clear I will have to remove the capsule to see what the cork says. I’ll do that when I plan to drink it next month once it has had time to settle and will report back.

 

[Chris Smith]

Unfortunately, for identification purposes, that is a bog-standard CDP bottle and capsule, used by many makers. I have just popped down to the cellar and found a few without trying very hard. You can certainly rule some makers out, who use different ones, but a positive identification is impossible.

It's quite likely the cork won't say much either.

But the good news is that you might just have a Bonneau Celestins.

 

[Jonathan Mitchell]

I've had a look though my archived product photos. None match the capsule I'm afraid.

 

[PhilWilkins]

If the suggested 1980s bottling 'estimate' is true, it’ll most likely be a Clos du Mont-Olivet (their capsule changed toward the naughties). Vieux Donjon & Bosquet des Papes also have the 3 circles, but from circa 98/99 onwards. Even the dating seems guesswork, so I'd suggest opening it and enjoying it—or not!!!

 

[kevin heatherington]

Indeed. Perhaps I’ll drink it alongside the 1978 Lirac I got for £8…

 

[GuyD'nis]

I'm curious - why are you reluctant to pull the capsule off now? Genuine question. You could probably pull it off whole and slight it back on slightly loosened if you wanted to. Or just not have a capsule? Sorry if it's a dumb question - I'm just curious!

 

[kevin heatherington]

I guess I thought the domaine might be identified from the capsule, clearly that isn’t the case. So it will be part of the occasion to remove it when I drink it soon (once it has rested for a couple of weeks). If I go and take the capsule off now and it is a generic, unbranded one, there is a chance I may lose interest and it may get left in the cellar and forgotten.

 

[GuyD'nis]

Ah! Hope it's a great bottle!

 

[kevin heatherington]

So I cut the capsule ahead of drinking it this evening. As I expected it simply says Mis en bouteille a la propriété. And there is no date. Short cork but it looks pretty firm.

So estate bottled rather than for a negociant perhaps? Possibly from an estate that didn’t use either the word Chateau or Domaine in its name?

I don’t expect I’m going to get anything more than that. Still, I will drink it this evening with roast duck breasts and puy lentils.

 

[kevin heatherington]

 

[kevin heatherington]

Some residue from neck label perhaps?

 

[kevin heatherington]

So we drank it. An old wine but a nice one. Here is a shot of the colour:



Lots of browning but not a whiff of oxidation so this was pleasantly drinkable. Distinctly Chateauneuf character with still a hint of cherry but plenty of liquorice, herb and leather. Aromatic, and tasty. No sign of much tannin or drying out. Lightish but good balance and reasonable length. No idea who made it, it wasn’t profound or really deep so not one of the top estates or a great vintage like 78 or 90. As to age, the colour profile, nose and flavours suggest to me the most likely age range is 1979-85. I don’t think it is a top year nor a particularly tannic one, that might rule out 76 or 83. There is no wateriness to suggest heavy rain effect nor high acidity from underripe grapes so I don’t think it is from a poor vintage. My best guess would be 79, 81 or 82. I’d expect anything after 1988 to be a bit less faded than this. Score:89-90.