- Location
- Bordeaux
Luckily for many here, price increases for growers are almost all on the secondary market. Unlike the big boys.
Unfortunately my main income is salary, not investmentHave you realised how fast central banks are printing "money"? Not restricted to Champagne, although it has been a large beneficiary. If you look at price increases in certain grower champagnes, the grand marques look mild in comparison over the last year and have been very strong since 2016, and the market is literally awash in freshly printed over the last 18 months.
Hefty price increases even in the primary market, most grower stuff has doubled over the past 5 years (or at least what I've been buying), not to mention my allocations being severely cut.Luckily for many here, price increases for growers are almost all on the secondary market. Unlike the big boys.
I think much of that is a conviction that, on the one hand, restaurants are where fine wine belongs; and, on the other, that being represented on top wine lists is the ultimate validation for a wine producer. Obviously this is a very French point of view that doesn't necessarily reflect the reality of how wine is consumed in other markets (or even in France for that matter). But one of the best selling points an importer can offer a French winemaker is generally that they will get their wines on all the best wine lists.Well VO is 86 now direct.
Collin have directed almost all stock to restaurants these days, significantly increasing retail and consumer demand.
I wonder where that idea came from.![]()
I think of those only the Lilbert is available to new customers in the last few years. The rest aren’t even taking new customers. Though obviously much kudos for spotting these early and removing yourself from the secondary market game.I guess we are buying different things, clearly prices are up but I don’t feel gouged, and in the prior 5 years most of these hadn’t moved much at all.
In 5 years
Lilbert 32->39
Selosse vintage 137->185
Vilmart Coeur 62->69
Peters Chetillons 48-61
Diebolt Fleur 52 ->70
Donald,I really enjoyed reading this thread and wanted to join the forum to comment here. With 2008 you have to give Krug the benefit of the doubt in not knowing if they would release a vintage. It was not clear from the beginning which route vintage 2008 in general would take in the champagne region. Many producers told me, that it took a really long time just to taste past the stone wall acidity, 2008 took a very long time to show itself. There were no critics that came out and said straight off the bat, that it had the potential to be a massive vintage, Also I feel a lot of 2008s are shutting down, in the grower producer genre, Egly's 2008 was incredibly open from the beginning but now I think it has lost its initial inertia and will need a good few years to show its true potential and if it is really a 100 point champagne. The same applies to a number of grower producers. I would compare 2008 to 1996 and given time i believe the 2008 Krug will be a benchmark bottle.
On a similiar vien look at 2016, Lecaillon from Roederer has compared it to 2012, 2002, 1964 and 1949. I have no experience of the latter two, but I would certianly agree 16 is a big vintage, not at the level of 2008
I think more than one realises. The CIVC controls every champagne and decides if it is worthy to be named a champagne or not. Does not happen often, but if they are not happy, back to the drawing boards, the champagne becomes reserve wine.Isn’t the decision to release a vintage basically made at the point of bottling, rather than commercial release.
How many vintage wines are but back into blending tanks post secondary fermentation?
I really enjoyed reading this thread and wanted to join the forum to comment here. With 2008 you have to give Krug the benefit of the doubt in not knowing if they would release a vintage. It was not clear from the beginning which route vintage 2008 in general would take in the champagne region. Many producers told me, that it took a really long time just to taste past the stone wall acidity, 2008 took a very long time to show itself. There were no critics that came out and said straight off the bat, that it had the potential to be a massive vintage, Also I feel a lot of 2008s are shutting down, in the grower producer genre, Egly's 2008 was incredibly open from the beginning but now I think it has lost its initial inertia and will need a good few years to show its true potential and if it is really a 100 point champagne. The same applies to a number of grower producers. I would compare 2008 to 1996 and given time i believe the 2008 Krug will be a benchmark bottle.
On a similiar vien look at 2016, Lecaillon from Roederer has compared it to 2012, 2002, 1964 and 1949. I have no experience of the latter two, but I would certianly agree 16 is a big vintage, not at the level of 2008
You are right with Egly. Egly told us on release not to wait and drink one pretty soon and he was right, it was incredibly open. A second one a year later was good but not as mesmerising as the first bottle, for this reason I have held off. Saying that, the 2002 for me has pobably past its zenith so I am not sure of the real aging potential.I'm not sure I would agree with you on the Egly 2008. I've had four bottles in the last couple of months, one in Spain, three from my limited stock (now down to one bottle). I am drinking it because it does seem to have reached a good level to me. That doesn't say it won't go on more, but for my taste I value freshness more than depth and I don't need to risk aging it further to find out.
The problem with Krug 2008 isn't just giving it the benefit of the doubt. It's giving it the benefit of the doubt, praying that even if it has the potential to become a great wine then it also it ages with fewer variability issues so that it can realise that potential.
For me issues have beset (e.g.,) 1988 (all bottlings), 1990, 1995 (including mags), 1996, 2004 CdM, ... which are all potentially great on a good day, but encounter too many misses. In the past, when premium Champagne was less expensive, one was perhaps prepared to take more variation and just ride out the misses. Now it seems crazy to expect anything less than very good given the pricing of the wines in the marketplace.
A related question. Does anyone have any clue how much Krug 2008 is left to release? I have heard that maybe as little as 10% has been released.