- Location
- Northampton
Well I am a bit on edge and looking forward to being able to uncross my fingers!
Food Lockdown Loaves
- Thread starter Bryan Collins
- Start date
- Location
- London
Not ideal, but it looks pretty decent-if toast and sandwiches are to be the main use there is much to be said for tin loaves on the grounds of evenness of slice size! I really would make a bigger loaf next time, it might solve the problem. I don't know if it would work for you but when it's cold I sometimes raise the bread in a barely warmed-and obviously switched off-oven
- Location
- London
You might also try less brown flour for the moment, perhaps just adding a little dark rye to the white-but I am only throwing out random suggestions!
- Location
- Nottingham
Blimey Jim, it’s a three pipe problem!
I’ll be interested to hear what others think is a sufficient rise in the bulk ferment, but as I’ve said 25% seems a bit mean to me. This may be nothing more than confirmation bias on my part, but this site suggests that your problem could be a function of under-doing the first rise. https://www.pantrymama.com/sourdough-troubleshooting/ She has pics that are similar to yours and suggests nearer 50% may be better.
I’ll be interested to hear what others think is a sufficient rise in the bulk ferment, but as I’ve said 25% seems a bit mean to me. This may be nothing more than confirmation bias on my part, but this site suggests that your problem could be a function of under-doing the first rise. https://www.pantrymama.com/sourdough-troubleshooting/ She has pics that are similar to yours and suggests nearer 50% may be better.
- Location
- London
Here's another possibility-could the heat of the oven on the bottom be too high? that might mean that the dough near the bottom sets before it has fully expanded, forcing air upwards.
I've got a separate oven thermometer so I'll check. I have it at full ( 250C, I think) for the first 20 minutes covered, then turn it down to approx 230C for final 20/25 minutes till I judge the colour looks cooked. I have noticed the bread is slightly sticky when cool so I was womdering if it is properly baked.
You're right, everything in there suggests underproving is the main problem;the pictures could have been taken by me!
- Location
- London
I've had inordinate trouble trying to get larger holes, so perhaps we should swap loaves, Jim!
Stopped chasing that now I'm turning out loaves I'm happy with and with the realisation that large holes aren't desirable for my uses.
One way of alleviating your problem would be to use a far greater proportion of wholemeal, but of course that would be skirting the problem rather than solving it. I suspect the very strong Canadian flour is largely culpable, that stuff is the rocket fuel of the flour world. Other things you could try would be to lengthen the first rise, then degas/punch down when shaping for the banneton, followed a by a shortish second rise. I don't think 70% hydration should be a problem for non-spelt loaves.
Stopped chasing that now I'm turning out loaves I'm happy with and with the realisation that large holes aren't desirable for my uses.
One way of alleviating your problem would be to use a far greater proportion of wholemeal, but of course that would be skirting the problem rather than solving it. I suspect the very strong Canadian flour is largely culpable, that stuff is the rocket fuel of the flour world. Other things you could try would be to lengthen the first rise, then degas/punch down when shaping for the banneton, followed a by a shortish second rise. I don't think 70% hydration should be a problem for non-spelt loaves.
- Location
- Northampton
Meanwhile in a galaxy far from here...
I have been struggling to work out why my bread maker was making loaves that rose more at one end than the other.
I tried turning it round in case the wall facing side was in less draught.
Dumped one batch of instant yeast.
Changed flours several times.
Polished the inside of my bread making pan.
All to no avail.
So I decided to buy a new machine and elected to go for the brand new Panasonic which has separate yeast compartment and can specifically programme for sour dough, can't go for the Croustina models from the range as much of the time I use the fruit and nut dispenser.
Only problem is no stock of any anywhere since there is some kind of lockdown.
Anyway today I went back to basics and made a milk loaf from the original instruction book recipe.
The only slight tweak was to take care distributing the ingredints and pour in the milk gently whilst using 50% Strong flour cut with 50% Canadian extra strong..........
Best looking loaf of mine I can recall.
I will update once sliced for this evenings Roast Pork with stuffing sandwiches.
I have been struggling to work out why my bread maker was making loaves that rose more at one end than the other.
I tried turning it round in case the wall facing side was in less draught.
Dumped one batch of instant yeast.
Changed flours several times.
Polished the inside of my bread making pan.
All to no avail.
So I decided to buy a new machine and elected to go for the brand new Panasonic which has separate yeast compartment and can specifically programme for sour dough, can't go for the Croustina models from the range as much of the time I use the fruit and nut dispenser.
Only problem is no stock of any anywhere since there is some kind of lockdown.
Anyway today I went back to basics and made a milk loaf from the original instruction book recipe.
The only slight tweak was to take care distributing the ingredints and pour in the milk gently whilst using 50% Strong flour cut with 50% Canadian extra strong..........
Best looking loaf of mine I can recall.
I will update once sliced for this evenings Roast Pork with stuffing sandwiches.
- Location
- London
Did you not think to try using a spirit level to check your worktop?
- Location
- Northampton
Thought you would have known me well enough that I didn’t need to mention that check!
- Location
- Northampton
The view from within.
- Location
- London
Should we be a little concerned by that bubble on the left?
Ray, I’m surprised that you’re not...
- Location
- London
Ray’s post just reminded me of something that surprised me recently, namely that the addition of milk to the dough results in greater density of the final loaf. I had assumed that it would do something to the flavour, but never considered for a moment that it would change it texturally. Apparently it’s something to do with the fat affecting the gluten strength which inhibits the size of bubble growth.
Just when you think you’re beginning to understand you find that there’s a whole new universe out there that you hadn’t begun to consider.....
Just when you think you’re beginning to understand you find that there’s a whole new universe out there that you hadn’t begun to consider.....
- Location
- Northampton
I was pleased to get uniform outcome, but immediately remembered that the milk loaf is a bit “cakey” more suited for teatime with jam than roast pork or a sausage sarnie.
I shall try a standard recipe white loaf without any milk or my tweaks and see how that goes.
Mark, of course that bubble on the left was noted but I am trying so hard to get over myself
I shall try a standard recipe white loaf without any milk or my tweaks and see how that goes.
Mark, of course that bubble on the left was noted but I am trying so hard to get over myself
Tell me about it!
I think I’m there. 100% Canadian white with dark rye starter, introduced about 3pm yesterday, about 6 hours at room temperature including usual stretch and folds then into the 12C cellar for 12 hours before shaping into a boule and proving at room temperature while the oven heated. Bingo! Great oven spring, wonderful crust and flavour and much more even spread of smaller holes. Best cheese sandwich ever for a late lunch. Many thanks all.
- Location
- Nottingham
Well done Jim! Looks fab.
- Location
- London
Cue for much rejoicing, Jim!
What factors do you think made the difference??
What factors do you think made the difference??
Thanks both.
Tom, I definitely think my previous loaves were underprooved, the article linked by Andy had pictures uncannily reminiscent of mine, so the combination of 5/6 hours at 18C followed by 12 hours at 12C is a big change in my normal routine. The simpler shaping for the boule shape as opposed to my usual batard may also have helped but only slightly in my view. Your suggestion of using 100% white with just the addition of the dark rye in the starter may well have helped the structure but it certainly provided exactly the flavour I was seeking( combined with the long,cool ferment I guess).
Tom, I definitely think my previous loaves were underprooved, the article linked by Andy had pictures uncannily reminiscent of mine, so the combination of 5/6 hours at 18C followed by 12 hours at 12C is a big change in my normal routine. The simpler shaping for the boule shape as opposed to my usual batard may also have helped but only slightly in my view. Your suggestion of using 100% white with just the addition of the dark rye in the starter may well have helped the structure but it certainly provided exactly the flavour I was seeking( combined with the long,cool ferment I guess).
- Location
- Jerusalem. Israel
You got my like at 'cheese sandwich'.
After sorting out the proving issue( thanks all), I wanted to try and improve the colour and crust of my bread. I saw an Italian baker on YouTube who made a beautifully golden white sourdough by a longer and cooler bake. This was a pretty small loaf (350g white/50g Einkorn plus 80g of dark rye starter), baked at 230C for 25 minutes with the lid on then 35 minutes, lid off at 180C. Love the look of this and hoping for a nice crumb too.