NWR Rugby

Discussion in 'UK Wine Forum' started by Dan Baillie, Jun 10, 2018.

  1. Crazy game in joburg yesterday but ultimately followed the same pattern of all England’s recent games ie no forward platform or possession. Incredible to think that if Farrell hadn’t missed the easy penalty near the end they would have drawn the game even though the Boks absolutely mullered them!

    Surprised by Jones’ comments about the ref afterwards. There were a few frustrating decisions but overall I thought the ref was fine and England certainly can’t point to that as the reason for their defeat.
  2. I agree totally. Ref was fine (unlike the one for France v ABs.
  3. The sentiment on the ref elsewhere around the web is pretty negative. There were some odd decisions - e.g. why was Daly's missed touchdown not reviewed, and then Itoje's was, so long after the whistle, quite clearly disrupting Farrell's ultimately missed kick. Some things just could have been handled a bit more professionally, which they usually are. Nevertheless a quality international side should be able to adapt to that kind of reffing with ease.

    Brown more or less answered his critics, I think, but I would still prefer a more pacey winger. Daly is just not a FB - should be in at 13 in my view. The pack I am still a bit mystified by - England are lucky to have a wealth of options across lock and flanker right now, and yet we still cannot pick players in their best positions. I much preferred LCD to George at Hooker.

    I don't want to rubbish EJ just yet, as it's probably a bit early, but the signs of him having caught the RFU syndrome are definitely emerging. Why was Gustard taken as defence coach when he's off to Quins, for example? This is one of the last opportunities that Jones has to solidify the squad and management structure ahead of next year.
  4. Julian I’m a little surprised you say England has a wealth of options at lock and flanker. In one sense in each case it is true; but with Kruis and Lawes left behind and the generally rather under appreciated Launchbury injured, yesterday the cupboard looked a bit bare. Lots of flankers but are any of them quality 7s? Not yet - though Curry could perhaps become one I believe.

    Hats off to SA though who played so well at pace. Time to shake up the premiership so England players are more used to what other national teams can do?
  5. England aren’t as good as some people think they are. Summer internationals though I don’t hold much weight on.
  6. As a coach it's your responsibility to develop a game that can win matches whatever referee you get, so I don't buy that argument.

    Jones set out his stall as building toward the world cup and having three players in each position. However he's gone curiously silent on that with the world cup imminent. The back row is a shambles and is key to England's weakness. However there are other problems such as the centres and wings. Plus now the defence (and frankly Gustard isn't as good a coach as Farrell). Jones has got to develop an alternative approach very quickly because the top teams have mastered how to beat England (with the possible exception of Australia although I think a three nil whitewash in Australia is unlikely to be repeated if played today).

    For instance I have no idea why he persists with Curry when the acid test is the world cup. Curry will never be the finished article by then, so why bother? He has to select players who at least are going to be battle hardened by then and be able to come to a peak. Bewildering
  7. England great for 20 minutes and then abysmal for 60. Boks really didn’t have to do too much as England were so poor. This time though I did think some of Poite’s decisions were quite baffling. The yellow card for Hughes was ridiculous for starters.
  8. Thank God the ref was northern hemisphere then . Frankly England lack focus and seemed badly coached. If they don’t turn it round at Newlands I would dump him. Mind you the decision to stay at sea level is baffling to me having lived in the high veld . It takes a while to get used to the altitude.
  9. Horrible game today. England needed and wanted it more but we learned nothing from the game other than that the pack could actually start to step up and give the team some parity in possession and territory. Great advert fior stadia having sliding roofs...!
    Keith Prothero likes this.
  10. Right you are - I was having a senior moment, thought more were available.

    Re: today...I'm afraid I'm not in the same camp as you Dan - I quite enjoyed it in a masochistic sort of way! Proper rugby with challenging conditions that really tested the skill levels (which are still ultimately poor, much behind every other professional sport in the world as has been stated in the media).

    It felt like a patient, steady game from England. As much as I prefer not to say it, thought Robshaw was outstanding and he lifted the pack. First half lineouts obviously shocking, but more because SA seemed to have a read on them - did Brits have an influence there? Still very unconvinced by what George adds, but outside of that, most of the team played a decent enough game.

    Cipriani played as I expected. I've long been a fan and I'm glad he took his chance. Ford is not in better form right now, and Cips seems much better at dealing with poor/disrupted ball. And of course he's much more entertaining to watch.
  11. The best thing about the game for me is that the Cape is getting much needed rain. Nuff said :)
    Mark Carrington likes this.
  12. Julian,

    I’m all for masochistic wars of attrition - I was a tight head prop... :cool:. However, the skill level on display yesterday was truly not of international level. England’s kicking and handling were abysmal.

    Agree re Cipriani. Ford has been out of sorts recently. He’s just not controlling the game in the way a 10 needs to and I would expect Cipriani to be just as good in attack and defence. I do worry about the fragility of England’s midfield though - the boks were always over the gain line.

  13. It was not a display of skill which would have unsettled the top sides - sure it was windy and very wet underfoot, but somehow I think the ABs would not have had to play so limited a game. I agree the kicking, especially, was woeful at times; mainly Ben Youngs who despite having had plenty of practice during the first ten minutes of the game continued with overlong box kicks. Silly and annoying things, like Eliot Daly kicking his free kick out by being too ambitious, lots of spilled balls and easy turnovers caused repeated loss of momentum, which in other games was caused largely by silly penalties. Had SA been at the level they were at the first two games I am not sure England would have won.

    If only we had six centres of the calibre of Ford, Farrell and Cipriani! I think Mike Brown has played himself back in the 15 slot and I'd love to see Daly at 13. Curry is coming on nicely I think in the other obvious position where England lack resources.

    Anyway it was a win that was very badly needed, but I hope we won't see so boring a game plan used other than very sparingly in the future! It's ok to win like this once in a while, but if it becomes a new strategy I for one won't be watching.
  14. It was undoubtedly the right (indeed, the only) game plan given the conditions but it was executed so poorly over and over again. Even when the kicks were well done, the chase was hopeless and sometimes just non-existent - I think the chasers just gave up after a while, expecting the kicks always to be so poor. Fortunately, the boks weren’t able to take advantage. Any of the other top teams would have soundly beaten England yesterday.

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