NWR Rugby

Discussion in 'UK Wine Forum' started by Dan Baillie, Jun 10, 2018.

  1. Crazy game in joburg yesterday but ultimately followed the same pattern of all England’s recent games ie no forward platform or possession. Incredible to think that if Farrell hadn’t missed the easy penalty near the end they would have drawn the game even though the Boks absolutely mullered them!

    Surprised by Jones’ comments about the ref afterwards. There were a few frustrating decisions but overall I thought the ref was fine and England certainly can’t point to that as the reason for their defeat.
     
  2. I agree totally. Ref was fine (unlike the one for France v ABs.
     
  3. The sentiment on the ref elsewhere around the web is pretty negative. There were some odd decisions - e.g. why was Daly's missed touchdown not reviewed, and then Itoje's was, so long after the whistle, quite clearly disrupting Farrell's ultimately missed kick. Some things just could have been handled a bit more professionally, which they usually are. Nevertheless a quality international side should be able to adapt to that kind of reffing with ease.

    Brown more or less answered his critics, I think, but I would still prefer a more pacey winger. Daly is just not a FB - should be in at 13 in my view. The pack I am still a bit mystified by - England are lucky to have a wealth of options across lock and flanker right now, and yet we still cannot pick players in their best positions. I much preferred LCD to George at Hooker.

    I don't want to rubbish EJ just yet, as it's probably a bit early, but the signs of him having caught the RFU syndrome are definitely emerging. Why was Gustard taken as defence coach when he's off to Quins, for example? This is one of the last opportunities that Jones has to solidify the squad and management structure ahead of next year.
     
  4. Julian I’m a little surprised you say England has a wealth of options at lock and flanker. In one sense in each case it is true; but with Kruis and Lawes left behind and the generally rather under appreciated Launchbury injured, yesterday the cupboard looked a bit bare. Lots of flankers but are any of them quality 7s? Not yet - though Curry could perhaps become one I believe.

    Hats off to SA though who played so well at pace. Time to shake up the premiership so England players are more used to what other national teams can do?
     
  5. England aren’t as good as some people think they are. Summer internationals though I don’t hold much weight on.
     
  6. As a coach it's your responsibility to develop a game that can win matches whatever referee you get, so I don't buy that argument.

    Jones set out his stall as building toward the world cup and having three players in each position. However he's gone curiously silent on that with the world cup imminent. The back row is a shambles and is key to England's weakness. However there are other problems such as the centres and wings. Plus now the defence (and frankly Gustard isn't as good a coach as Farrell). Jones has got to develop an alternative approach very quickly because the top teams have mastered how to beat England (with the possible exception of Australia although I think a three nil whitewash in Australia is unlikely to be repeated if played today).

    For instance I have no idea why he persists with Curry when the acid test is the world cup. Curry will never be the finished article by then, so why bother? He has to select players who at least are going to be battle hardened by then and be able to come to a peak. Bewildering
     
  7. England great for 20 minutes and then abysmal for 60. Boks really didn’t have to do too much as England were so poor. This time though I did think some of Poite’s decisions were quite baffling. The yellow card for Hughes was ridiculous for starters.
     
  8. Thank God the ref was northern hemisphere then . Frankly England lack focus and seemed badly coached. If they don’t turn it round at Newlands I would dump him. Mind you the decision to stay at sea level is baffling to me having lived in the high veld . It takes a while to get used to the altitude.
     
  9. Horrible game today. England needed and wanted it more but we learned nothing from the game other than that the pack could actually start to step up and give the team some parity in possession and territory. Great advert fior stadia having sliding roofs...!
     
    Keith Prothero likes this.
  10. Right you are - I was having a senior moment, thought more were available.

    Re: today...I'm afraid I'm not in the same camp as you Dan - I quite enjoyed it in a masochistic sort of way! Proper rugby with challenging conditions that really tested the skill levels (which are still ultimately poor, much behind every other professional sport in the world as has been stated in the media).

    It felt like a patient, steady game from England. As much as I prefer not to say it, thought Robshaw was outstanding and he lifted the pack. First half lineouts obviously shocking, but more because SA seemed to have a read on them - did Brits have an influence there? Still very unconvinced by what George adds, but outside of that, most of the team played a decent enough game.

    Cipriani played as I expected. I've long been a fan and I'm glad he took his chance. Ford is not in better form right now, and Cips seems much better at dealing with poor/disrupted ball. And of course he's much more entertaining to watch.
     
  11. The best thing about the game for me is that the Cape is getting much needed rain. Nuff said :)
     
    Mark Carrington likes this.
  12. Julian,

    I’m all for masochistic wars of attrition - I was a tight head prop... :cool:. However, the skill level on display yesterday was truly not of international level. England’s kicking and handling were abysmal.

    Agree re Cipriani. Ford has been out of sorts recently. He’s just not controlling the game in the way a 10 needs to and I would expect Cipriani to be just as good in attack and defence. I do worry about the fragility of England’s midfield though - the boks were always over the gain line.

    Dan
     
  13. It was not a display of skill which would have unsettled the top sides - sure it was windy and very wet underfoot, but somehow I think the ABs would not have had to play so limited a game. I agree the kicking, especially, was woeful at times; mainly Ben Youngs who despite having had plenty of practice during the first ten minutes of the game continued with overlong box kicks. Silly and annoying things, like Eliot Daly kicking his free kick out by being too ambitious, lots of spilled balls and easy turnovers caused repeated loss of momentum, which in other games was caused largely by silly penalties. Had SA been at the level they were at the first two games I am not sure England would have won.

    If only we had six centres of the calibre of Ford, Farrell and Cipriani! I think Mike Brown has played himself back in the 15 slot and I'd love to see Daly at 13. Curry is coming on nicely I think in the other obvious position where England lack resources.

    Anyway it was a win that was very badly needed, but I hope we won't see so boring a game plan used other than very sparingly in the future! It's ok to win like this once in a while, but if it becomes a new strategy I for one won't be watching.
     
  14. It was undoubtedly the right (indeed, the only) game plan given the conditions but it was executed so poorly over and over again. Even when the kicks were well done, the chase was hopeless and sometimes just non-existent - I think the chasers just gave up after a while, expecting the kicks always to be so poor. Fortunately, the boks weren’t able to take advantage. Any of the other top teams would have soundly beaten England yesterday.
     
  15. Just watched highlights of game v SA. Some new faces in the England team?
     
  16. Lots of injuries. I expected England to lose badly and the final result was a travesty. Boks should have won at a canter. Not sure what the spread is for England vs the ABs this weekend but it should be at least 20 points.
     
  17. England are still box-kicking for the sake of it without either accuracy for the chasers or sometimes any serious chase at all, giving possession to the opponents. NZ will punish this. By the same token I expect them to pepper Daly to exploit his lack of experience, if he's selected at fullback. At least England have now gone a period in which they have contained their previous wilful concession of penalties
     
  18. I suspect it will be a question of conceding penalties or tries on Saturday and even that option won't be there on several occasions.
     
  19. Could be. NZ always have the ability to cut loose and score tries in quick succession. But I think that if England play a disciplined game for 80 minutes they could be in with a shout. They will aim to play a very agressive defensive line like Andy Farrell implemented for the Lions, inhibiting NZ. Then I think they need to play a structured game which can protect the ball much more. The question is whether they have the players in the groove enough to be able to do that enough to control the match. It's pretty clear that if the game breaks up NZ will win at a canter. Of course sin binning on either side can change the course of the game but I think England's basic plan will be to try to stifle NZ
     
  20. Totally agree on box kicking, South Africa’s kicking was far better on Saturday.
    Why not pass to Farrel at stand off so he can see where he’s kicking?

    Daly looks shaky under the ball which is odd for him. Maybe brown will be picked?

    England need to be very tight and take any points offered. Mind you May must scare them so give him the ball in space?
     
  21. The game definitely confirmed that Daly should not be FB. He's a really good player but that just isn't his position.

    Ultimately South Africa lost it rather than England winning it. I'm pretty ambivalent about how Farrell's final tackle was treated - there was something very similar earlier in the game from SA that the ref chose to dismiss, so at least things were consistent. SA could and should have closed that game out in the first half, and given the length of time their squad has been training with each other, especially compared to England...well Erasmus should be looking elsewhere for the reasons that they lost that game.

    Either way, Mark Wilson is surely the most interesting outcome from our perspective - hell of a debut performance.
     
  22. Agree on Wilson (although I think he was on the Argentina tour?) and on Daly. I think that's an opportunity lost but it's lost because Jones spent too much time persevering with Brown. Daly would have needed the time to learn to be a fullback but we've more-or-less run out of time for that now. Watson could in fact have been the RWC fullback but for injury. When you look at England's long injury list relative to the other top nations I think it's clear that what will frustrate England's plans to be world champions again is not a lack of players or coaches but that they play far too many games and get injured as a consequence. Central contracts will have to be implemented one way or another
     
    Ian Sutton likes this.
  23. SBW at IC for the ABs
    Looks like Teo will be a starter.
    New Zealand XV:

    Damian McKenzie;
    Ben Smith,
    Jack Goodhue,
    Sonny Bill Williams,
    Rieko Ioane;
    Beauden Barrett,
    Aaron Smith;
    Karl Tu'inukuafe,
    Codie Taylor,
    Owen Franks,
    Sam Whitelock,
    Brodie Retallick,
    Liam Squire,
    Ardie Savea,
    Kieran Read (captain).

    Mobile pack, incisive runners - could be a cricket score if it all goes right / wrong depending on who you support.
    One possible weakness - Jack Goodhue's lack of experience?
     
  24. A cool backstory to Karl Tu'inukuafe's inclusion
     
  25. Ashton in for Nowell, no Tuilagi. Lawes on the bench, Underhill in for Curry. An interesting selection. Can they get parity with the AB pack?
     

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