Saltiness in Wine (distinct from 'salinity')

David Bell

David Bell

Location
London
I say distinct from salinity perhaps not with complete confidence, but I think so. I have come across 'saline' wines semi-frequently, with this being mostly expressed on the nose.

However, I have also come across some wines which to me have a distinctly salty note on the palate - i.e. provoking a sensation/taste on the tongue very similar to that which a salty food does, albeit perhaps not to the same intensity and balanced out by other flavours. I've noticed this several times with high quality, older Pinot Noir. Earlier today I was surprised to find this in a Condrieu.

Is this something others have found and does anyone know how/why this can occur? And just to confirm - glasses definitely clean and no I didn't have a piece of stilton two minutes before!
 
I have had that with some champagne and some sauternes.

As for champagne, yeast extract taste a bit salty (there are amino acid salts in it) so maybe it could be coming from that?

For sauternes, one sauternes that I had which was annoyingly salty, was Reiussec 2007 about 5 years ago. I am not sure if that taste is some organic salts or just botrytis overpower.

Interestingly, it is said that the Umami sensory needs salt to happen; if you taste MSG solution alone, it doesn't really give you Umami feeling.
 
I must admit I don't understand the distiction between salty and saline, as in everyday language saline means a solution of salt in water. And wine is mainly water, so the water bit is unavoidable.

Perhaps you are using saline to describe the (or a) smell of the sea or seaside? In which case it could be almost anything. I believe the smell of the seaside, which used to be wrongly described as ozone, is mainly rotting seaweed.
 
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Steve Slatcher said:
I must admit I don't understand the distiction between salty and saline, as in everyday language saline means a solution of salt in water. And wine is mainly water, so the water bit is unavoidable.

Perhaps you are using saline to describe the (or a) smell of the sea or seaside? In which case it could be almost anything. I believe the smell of the seaside, which used to be wrongly described as ozone, is mainly rotting seaweed.
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Saline seems to be a reasonably common descriptor in tasting notes, and I suspect it is normally used in the way you suggest, i.e. smelling of the sea/seaside, or 'briny' smells - especially given salt shouldn't really have an odour.

However like I said in my original post, what I'm talking about here is a salty taste on the palate so that's rather different (even if it technically shouldn't be, but wine-speak is an easy target for pedantry!) - I don't think any of the wines which I've thought had saline noses actually tasted salty in the way that I am talking about here.
 
@David Bell I wasn't BTW intending to be pedantic, or critical in any way - just trying to understand what you meant by salty as opposed to saline.

I very rarely detect any saltiness or salinity in wine, and when I do I am not sure if I am imagining it or not, so I cannot speak from personal experience, but I find these discussions interesting.
 
I can't say that I've ever tasted a salty, or saline wine. Only Manzanilla seems remotely salty to me. Reduced wines can smell of rock-pools and seaweed but that's a different thing. Some Rhone whites have a soapy feel and taste that I suppose could be thought of as salty in the way that certain mineral waters do. Can you actually taste salt in the wine?
 
I get the saline/salty thing on the palate fairly frequently (I use the two terms interchangeably). Aside from Sherry and Madeira, commonly affected types of wine (as in, I have multiple notes including relevant descriptors) include:
- whites from Santorini and the Canaries
- white Burgundy (not just Chablis)
- Champagne
- red Bordeaux
- various Italian reds
- Jura whites
- Riesling Trocken and Kabinett
- South African Semillon
 
Jonathan Hesford said:
Reduced wines can smell of rock-pools and seaweed but that's a different thing.
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Ah, now I've had one of those - a Northern Rhone red that smelt of rock pool - disgusting. I was just getting into wine at the time, and wasn't 100% sure it was faulty, but did get a refund from the wine merchant, who thought is was a bacterial infection. I almost mentioned it above here.
 
David Bell said:
I say distinct from salinity perhaps not with complete confidence, but I think so. I have come across 'saline' wines semi-frequently, with this being mostly expressed on the nose.

However, I have also come across some wines which to me have a distinctly salty note on the palate - i.e. provoking a sensation/taste on the tongue very similar to that which a salty food does, albeit perhaps not to the same intensity and balanced out by other flavours. I've noticed this several times with high quality, older Pinot Noir. Earlier today I was surprised to find this in a Condrieu.

Is this something others have found and does anyone know how/why this can occur? And just to confirm - glasses definitely clean and no I didn't have a piece of stilton two minutes before!
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Hi David,

I have also come across 'saltiness' (as opposed to salinity) fairly frequently in some high-end California Cabernets, especially the cult-Cabs. Since I do not like 'saltiness', this is not a flavor profile that I appreciate in my wines.
The profile which I am describing is separate and apart from salinity in wine, which I have no problem with.

I have no idea what causes it, other than it is not the glassware as I have had this occur in many different settings over the years.

Hope this helps.
 
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