Storage of screwcapped wines?

Mark Carrington said:
IR hosted an Edelstone themed off-line in 2019 & I also took along 2002 Dutschke Shiraz Single Vineyard St. Jakobi Vineyard under cork & screwcap. There was no real difference, with cork maybe a tad fresher. I have one bottle remaining under screwcap which I will open this week.
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Very interesting you mention that Dutschke wine Mark. That was the wine that first made me aware of the major problem with cork. Our distributor in Adelaide many years ago also distributed Dutschke. A group of us went to dinner in Adelaide one night and he ordered that wine. It got poured for everyone and everyone agreed it was corked. So they brought out a second bottle and everyone was happy with it and would happily have drunk it - except for the person who ordered it. He said "no it still isn't quite right." So they brought out a third bottle, and it was stunning. It was only because that one person insisted that we got to try the stunning bottle.

It is since then that I have realised the problem with corked wines is not the wines that are obviously corked, it is the wines that are just ever so slightly tainted. Probably a low level of taint that only 1 in a 1,000 wine drinkers would notice. Everyone else would just think it was an average wine.

I have a bottle each of 2001 Neudorf Pinot Noir under screwcap and cork that I am waiting for a suitable occasion to compare. Probably needs to be soon.
 
From a non-scientific cork v screwcap experiment a few years ago...

Henschke Mt Edelstone 2003 - Cork v Stelvin - This is my favourite South Australian wine, even over Hill of Grace from back then - could be different with recent vintages tho. A real shame at the price of MtE these days - well out of my price league. Both wines were double decanted for sediment, although the thrown sediment seemed to be in similar amounts. I’d (for no particular reason) thought the screw cap bottle would have shown less (less oxygen, less sediment???). Hard to tell at any rate. The first pour was spectacular, with seemingly little difference between the two, with violet notes to the fore. However, with air, beyond 30 minutes, clear differences.

2003 Henschke Mt Edelstone (cork) - Lighter to the eye. Sensual fragrance. This is a fabulous bottle that is medium-bodied and in perfect condition at 20 years. This has lost most of its primary fruits, with blackcurrant/violet/spice/coffee grounds. This is a seriously complex wine. It ends with decent acidity, resolved tannins and a persistent finish with tremendous intensity. A long and complex wine that shows the positive added development the cork gives (unless it's corked - lol). There are at least 10+ years of development left here. A superb bottle, edging it on complexity alone. 14.5% 94pts

2003 Henschke Mt Edelstone (screwcap) - Darker in every respect. Colour, development, complexity. It seems a little more full-bodied compared to the cork. Like a brother from another mother. More unresolved oak in this poking over the primary red/blackcurrant/black cherry fruits and somewhat less subtle in every respect despite the many similarities. I like this a lot texturally. Some game/gravel/peppery spice swirling around, too. Tannins/acidity still balanced, although backward compared to the cork version. It could do with 20 years in the cellar. Slightly young overall. 14.5% 92pts

Edit: For what it’s worth, both bottles were cellared horizontally. There was no corrosion or damage to the screwcapped closure, just a bit of staining.

HENSCHKE 2003 -LO1.jpg
 
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My TN. Fairly certain it was under cork. Edlestone was my favourite Shiraz, until prices when bonkers.
  • 2003 Henschke Shiraz Mount Edelstone - Australia, South Australia, Barossa, Eden Valley (17/01/2021)
    Blood red, near opaque; a blast of black fruits, beefy; full throttle, huge, power packed; tremendous attack on the finish. All too much of a good thing? (91 pts.)
Posted from CellarTracker
 
Wow. We brought a case of 6 Henschke Shiraz Mount Edelstone 2015 ages ago based entirely on recommendation from a friend in the trade and according to my notes it was £300 delivered. What on earth has made prices shoot up so much? Have not opened any yet.
 
I was under the impression (purely through reading around) a screwcap was more reliable but also stymied typical aging.
Phil's n=1 experiment certainly supports that yet beyond simple tradition, higher grade reds will likely never switch; if 20 yr old wine still needs 20 more, it's into the realm of pointless.
However for whites, in most cases it's presumably more interesting as a screwcap could well legitimately extend the lifespan of plenty of good wines from short to similar to what we expect from reds
 
The 'does wine age' problem has largely been addressed by the screwcap industry, who offer wine producers a choice of liners (the bit inside the metal cap) with different permeability, and therefore different but still supposedly consistent rates of oxygen transfer so that they can 'control' the ageing profile of their wines. Whether this has been proved to be as consistent or reliable in the field is another matter.

I do remember an experimental tasting about 20 years ago at Pichon-Lalande where pairs of 5 and 10-year-old wines were presented, one under cork and one under screwcap (probably before the 'different liners' concept), and the screwcapped wines were indeed rather reduced. But I haven't really noticed any problematic reduction in higher-end bottles under screwcap in recent years.
 
AJ Temple said:
Wow. We brought a case of 6 Henschke Shiraz Mount Edelstone 2015 ages ago based entirely on recommendation from a friend in the trade and according to my notes it was £300 delivered. What on earth has made prices shoot up so much? Have not opened any yet.
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I could trot out my often aired lament regards 1986 Edelstone for £8 & HoG £15 (the latter ‘too pricey’) but I’ll resist doing so.
 
Mark Carrington said:
I could trot out my often aired lament regards 1986 Edelstone for £8 & HoG £15 (the latter ‘too pricey’) but I’ll resist doing so.
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At least you were allowed to buy them. Jon T wouldn’t even entertain the idea of an inexperienced young whippersnapper buying them and I was flatly refused and steered elsewhere. And yes, I think the Mt Edelstone was about a tenner and the HoG about £18-£20 at the time - probably ‘88 or ‘‘89 vintage.
 
Kevin Courtney said:
Interesting you say that. I was standing in front of my racks, deciding what to pull out for dinner drinks, when we had quite a big earthquake and everything started to shake. I braced myself to catch everything as they fell. There were only a couple that came loose and I managed to catch them. I call them racks but they are actually bins with up to 18 bottles in each, all resting on top of each other. Once one bottle goes, many others tend to follow.
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Sounds like you need a large net over the open ends of the bins to stop the bottles falling out during a shaky moment. And probably not wise to open a Champagne shortly after a 'quake ;)
 
I was still buying Mt E by the caseload from Fortnum and Mason, of all places, for about £17 in the mid 90s.

Apropos the actual thread, I have an untouched 6-pack of 2004 with 3x Cork and 3x screwcap- if anyone can find appropriate flight mates, happy to do some first hand research with a pair...
 
Chris Smith said:
I was still buying Mt E by the caseload from Fortnum and Mason, of all places, for about £17 in the mid 90s.

Apropos the actual thread, I have an untouched 6-pack of 2004 with 3x Cork and 3x screwcap- if anyone can find appropriate flight mates, happy to do some first hand research with a pair...
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That would be a nice experiment blind!
 
Tom Cannavan said:
I do remember an experimental tasting about 20 years ago at Pichon-Lalande where pairs of 5 and 10-year-old wines were presented, one under cork and one under screwcap (probably before the 'different liners' concept), and the screwcapped wines were indeed rather reduced. But I haven't really noticed any problematic reduction in higher-end bottles under screwcap in recent years.
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I expect the cause of the reduction was that the so2 levels in the wines had been optimised for cork, with that being the majority of their production. As with DIAM, screw caps should allow producers to reduce their sulphite levels compared to natural cork, where they are often working to the "worst case" natural cork. If the producer bottles exclusively with screwcap, I would expect less reduction.
 
Chris Smith said:
I was still buying Mt E by the caseload from Fortnum and Mason, of all places, for about £17 in the mid 90s.

Apropos the actual thread, I have an untouched 6-pack of 2004 with 3x Cork and 3x screwcap- if anyone can find appropriate flight mates, happy to do some first hand research with a pair...
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Definitely under screwcap. My red WotY last year, IIRC.
  • 2004 Henschke Shiraz Mount Edelstone - Australia, South Australia, Barossa, Eden Valley (09/09/2024)
    Some softening at rim, dazzling ruby; bright red fruits explodes from the glass; polished, pure, focused, tremendous depth; potent finish. Will age well decade+. Pristine. (96 pts.)
Posted from CellarTracker
 
Adam Bruntlett said:
I expect the cause of the reduction was that the so2 levels in the wines had been optimised for cork, with that being the majority of their production. As with DIAM, screw caps should allow producers to reduce their sulphite levels compared to natural cork, where they are often working to the "worst case" natural cork. If the producer bottles exclusively with screwcap, I would expect less reduction.
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I'm certain that's true. 20 years ago I'm pretty sure Pichon would just have bunged a screwcap on without any change to winemaking.
 
Jonathan Hesford said:
I have a vision of you cutting off the capsule, discovering a DIAM cork and throwing the bottle straight in the bin, while muttering something from Ovid. :)
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I am serious-storing bottles sealed with natural cork upside down is the best way of keeping the cork moist and the seal intact over the long term, though it doesn't help with TCA!
 
Thom Blach said:
I am serious-storing bottles sealed with natural cork upside down is the best way of keeping the cork moist and the seal intact over the long term, though it doesn't help with TCA!
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I never realised an inverted bottle soaked the cork more than a bottle on it side. Must be hard balancing the inverted bottles though and I'd be concerned about losing a few every time a bus or lorry went past the house.
 
Paul Anderson said:
I never realised an inverted bottle soaked the cork more than a bottle on it side. Must be hard balancing the inverted bottles though and I'd be concerned about losing a few every time a bus or lorry went past the house.
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You have to keep them in a cardboard of the kind in which wine is often sold and delivered. I'm not necessarily saying that it's particularly practical but it is interesting.
 
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