Which is the most overrated burgundy producer?

Gareth Germain said:
Does anyone understand the business case for this? Just seems mad to me. I mean are they playing the medium term game of hoping that releasing at this sort of price going forward will slowly over 5-7 years lead to establishing this as a new base price? And presumably drive us (slowly but surely) the secondary prices as well?
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I guess this must be the case, repositioning in effect to go alongside the heavy investment in the wine to justify it
I’ve not tasted the wine in a number of years so can’t say how it’s progressed, like mark above I was out some time back when the 2015 was £900/6 ep
 
Arthur Verdin said:
Could be worse- Lafite 2022 you have to go all the way back to 2000!
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Really? It was around £500ib a bottle. Seems similar than most recent vintages and less than 2016, 2010 and 2009. I guess the difference with Bordeaux prices at this end is they have not moved much. The Lafite is basically the same price across the last 20 vintages whereas this is a multiply of previous ones.
 
Merchants get less and less Burgundy with globalisation so will sell whatever they can to anybody who wants it... and they and wine geeks are also part of the marketing effort (as wine critiques also are )
 
Mark Carrington said:
Mediocre? That’s not a fair reflection.
Post 1996 Clos des Lambrays has been VGI or better. The price reflected its reputation, fortunately. Thierry Brouin’s retirement heralded dramatic change.
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Perhaps it's unfair, it can be a very nice wine, but in my experience only when considered as a mid-range Morey 1er cru. I haven't tasted recent versions.
The one I enjoyed most was the 1993.
 
Admittedly I have not gone through the whole thread in forensic detail but I suspect Tom the OP has not answered his question yet!

Based on a Roumier comment on another thread today, is it Roumier and if not who?

(I’m hoping you are not going to be the Michael Howard to my Jeremy Paxman.)
 
Adam Holland said:
Based on a Roumier comment on another thread today, is it Roumier and if not who?
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Hmmh...Roumier makes some excellent wines. Of course, the prices are ridiculous... but a most overrated producer needs to make crap wine sold at outrageous prices...
Now, we don't always have the patience (not getting any younger...) to wait for Roumier wines to mature,,,
 
Antoine Singer said:
This is a LVMH product now!… the target customer isn’t the wine geek writing on Wine Forum… they’ll offer it soon in fancy perfume bottles
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Brian Robson said:
Unlikely they are to old especially given its Clos de Chenes which is usually a stunning wine in most years and ages very well.
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FWIW the bottles from my case are youthful and tight. I just assumed they need a lot more time to come around. I didn’t know that it was such a difficult vintage in Volnay. Apart from a few other duds, e.g., Taupenot-Merme Morey La Riotte, I have generally had good experiences with the 2001 red burgundy vintage.
 
Ian Hampsted said:
FWIW the bottles from my case are youthful and tight. I just assumed they need a lot more time to come around. I didn’t know that it was such a difficult vintage in Volnay. Apart from a few other duds, e.g., Taupenot-Merme Morey La Riotte, I have generally had good experiences with the 2001 red burgundy vintage.
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Yes generally 2001 for me is more good than bad. Having tasted this wine at the Domaine from barrel and upon release you can see why if they are still tight and youthful now why I passed on a purchase then.It was just bad luck for Volnay in 2001 because of the weather.
 
Simon Grant said:
This one that Bryan organised at 28-50? So good I managed to mis-spell Barthod in the title!

BRYAN'S BARHOD OFFLINE - 28-50, London (23/02/2012)

  • 1999 Domaine Ghislaine Barthod Chambolle-Musigny - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Chambolle-Musigny
    En magnum. Qite a dark dense nose, witha slightly strange edge to it, a little reduced I think. Seems to lift with a bit of air. Dense with velvety tannins. Smooth with reasonable length. Surprisingly full for a village Chambolle, certainly more so than I was expecting. Curious one this - over a couple of hours it changes quite dramatically in the glass - reduced, to quite dense, then seemingly oxidised, then a bit volatile, then back to good dark red fruit. All in all a bit enigmatic, but very drinkable once the reduction lifted. *** (87 pts.)
  • 1993 Domaine Ghislaine Barthod Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru Aux Beaux Bruns - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru
    Dark, slightly smokey nose. Similar styling to the 99 Villages - quite dark but a sense here of a bit more freshness on the front of the atatck. Fragrant, a little denser than I was expecting. With time the Mortet seems to have a little more including, surprisingly, elegance. ***1/2 (90 pts.)
  • 1993 Domaine Denis Mortet Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru Aux Beaux Bruns - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru
    A touch lighter than the barthod on the nose, but still quite drk in profile. Lighter and fresher on the palate though. An earthy meatiness here. General consensus (of three) is that there's a gevrey character. With time this opens up and shows more elegance and more of a fragrant, floral element. Showing better than the Barthod. **** (92 pts.)
  • 1996 Domaine Ghislaine Barthod Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru Aux Beaux Bruns - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru
    Another very ense, dark, quite concentrated nose. Overall a touch surly. Seems as if it may be very slughtly corked. A bit mean and not quite bright or right. ***/NR NR (flawed)
  • 2001 Domaine Ghislaine Barthod Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru Aux Beaux Bruns - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru
    Far lighter in colour than the 96 or indeed any of the previous wines. Curious nose of peanut brittle that blows off after a while and shows a far lighter profile. Light, fragrant, what I was expecting for Chambolle. Lighter, more fragrant, scented, very pretty. A lovely minerality and femininity. I like this very much. ****1/2 (94 pts.)
  • 1993 Domaine Ghislaine Barthod Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru Les Cras - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru
    A touch reduced on the nose, but this seems to cure itself with air. Quite fragrant and a degree of freshness.Benefits from being served a bit cooler than the BB earlier. Prettier and more elegant. Lovely. Good red fruit, nice shape and decent length. Showing the same fresh grapefruit character on the nose as the 93 Mortet BB. **** (93 pts.)
  • 1998 Domaine Ghislaine Barthod Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru Les Cras - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru
    Rounder, more red fruited and slightly more relaxd and open on the nose. Really quite attractive. A little riper and rounder than the 01 BB. Less charm. Nonetheless, very drinkable. With air it does come across as a little lifted/polished. Doesn't quite show the quality that the first impression hinted at. **** (91 pts.)
  • 2002 Domaine Ghislaine Barthod Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru Les Cras - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru
    Very 2002 red fruited, generous, round, almost exuberant. Comes across on the palate as a little dusty and a little warm, but it's certainly quite fun in a slightly obvious way. I think I enjoyed it slightly less than others. ***1/2 for me now, though I can see **** whenit calms down and shows some development. (91 pts.)
Posted from CellarTracker
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A good Barthod 07 Cras last night, just entering its drinking window, will improve for a decade or so I think. Still gentle blue fruit, resolved tannins, decent length. Restrained but liked by the non-winos too.

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Well you know me I'm always getting the wrong end of the stick :p

The trouble with this thread is that in practice it needs to mention price. I think if someone gave us a case of any of the wines mentioned on here we would all be pleased. As far as i can see no bad wines... On the other hand if we were forced to buy at market price the same case we might be quite annoyed.

So with Barthod, the cras seems to be between 200 and 350 according to WS. What do people think in that context?
 
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