Barolo - get it / don't get it

Paul J a i n e s

Paul J a i n e s

Location
London, Europe
Interesting to see the number of comments today on the forum re: Barolo - especially the number that fall on the "dont get it" side of the fence.

I am also conflicted in that I know I *should* like it, and I *do* like the idea of it - but I've never had a truly great one apart from once...(it was a 1970).

I appreciate style of winemaking is totally different today from years ago, but what is the duffers guide to Barolo ? How long should I leave them? Is cheaper Barolo for younger drinking decent? etc etc etc etc.

And can I apply similar rules to Barbaresco?

Borh are regions that are drunk widely on the forum but I certainly feel I lack the indepth knowledge that collectively we all have for the classic French regions/
 
Paul J a i n e s said:
Interesting to see the number of comments today on the forum re: Barolo - especially the number that fall on the "dont get it" side of the fence.

I am also conflicted in that I know I *should* like it, and I *do* like the idea of it - but I've never had a truly great one apart from once...(it was a 1970).

I appreciate style of winemaking is totally different today from years ago, but what is the duffers guide to Barolo ? How long should I leave them? Is cheaper Barolo for younger drinking decent? etc etc etc etc.

And can I apply similar rules to Barbaresco?

Borh are regions that are drunk widely on the forum but I certainly feel I lack the indepth knowledge that collectively we all have for the classic French regions/
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I think Barbaresco drinks a bit earlier but I still feel 20 years sensible if you have any hesitation about tannin.
 
Every bit the expensive minefield that Burgundy is I suppose, so everyone's experiences will be quite different. And remember Lidl's £6.99 Barolo just a few years ago to add to the confusion....
 
Ok I’ll put a (perhaps controversial) line in the sand:

I think when you’re having to make excuses for a wine, you’ve already lost.

I have at least established I like Barolo with about 15/20 years of age on it. Which means I should have bought some when I was a child. (I take the point that this can be made for other styles of wine, but I still think this rule needs to be applied unilaterally to Barolo, which can’t be said for much else).

Whilst the scale runs from old boot-> chewing on a saddle -> meh -> meh -> I paid more money and I still got meh -> I paid even more money and it’s still meh, my goodness this is frustrating -> I paid a lot of money and hmm this is quite nice -> omg I thought I was a white wine girly but lavender and leather and roses my goodness this is wonderful! I start to question the value.

Maybe we just have to accept that you should have bought it 20 years ago to enjoy it now, and if you are so unfortunate as to not have had a bank account then, then tough.

Even for red burgundy I can’t say the above - there are still nice, nay, mind blowing wines to be bought and enjoyed without such hassle. I’m already treading that minefield in Burgundy, why would I inflict that upon myself with Barolo too?

Alright I’ve bitten. Anyone else?
 
Drink a chunk of langhe Nebbiolo and then buy the Barolo of the producers you like. If you don’t like langhe Nebbiolo don’t bother with Barolo.

A lot of younger producers are making Barolo which is more enjoyable earlier.

I don’t agree with the 20 year guide based on what I buy and drink. It’s very vintage dependent. 2018, 2014, 2011 drinking very well now and probably not worth keeping for 20 years for my palate.

Similar to the French who prefer to drink bdx younger than the English, the Italians prefer to drink their wines younger (possibly because their cellars are so bad). I think the Italians have more of a case than the French.
 
I adore Nebbiolo. For Barolo and Barbareso, the important thing for my preference is to avoid anything with any discernible oak presence, so when I was more actively buying them to age, that was one of the main factors. I now have a fair few and am in he waiting phase, but most of these were made from 2000-2010, when a lot of producers seemed to be experimenting with using barriques, and this was not always clear so I am sure I have quite a few that I will find are overoaked. I increasingly have a preference for lighter-bodied styles, so am now geting more interested in Nebbiolo from Alto Piemonte and Valtelina.

As for ageing them, I recently had a Poderi Colla Barolo 1999 that seemed to be in a closed phase and should have been left alone. A Produttori del Barbaresco normale 2001 a few weeks ago was absolutely enthralling. I have found that some Barolo and Barbaresco seems to develop a fruitcake aspect as it ages, which I don’t like much.

And as for the cheaper, generic bottlings, there can be some good ones which will improve with age: I recently had the basic 2009 bottlings of Batasiolo’s Barolo and Barbaresco and was surprised at how well they showed.

I should perhaps add that I like tannins (and high levels of acidity) and happily drink young Nebbiolo d’Alba, especially Poderi Colla’s, and Travaglini’s basic Gattinara seems great when young.

As Thom has stated elsewhere, it’s good that we don’t all like the same things.
 
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I was hoping to provoke some interesting questions.....(and no definitive answers).... @Sarah-Beth Amos you raise an interesting point about being already lost. I am not sure it is that - just that I admire (I edited from 'adore') Barolo...just that I have never had a GREAT one, unlike Burgundy. Thinking about my question more - I would like to experience great barolo. All the ones I have drunk over the lsat few years are fairly uniform.

I hope that I am missing something because I feel I should be in love with this wine...
 
Very much in the don’t get it camp. I‘ve always found Barolo typically thin, tannic, and ferrous - more garage floor than forest floor. I sometimes find the tar and roses perfume lurking in there but it doesn’t compensate much.

I have of late, since the 2016 vintage, bought an occasional six pack from decent producers to see if I am wrong but I strongly suspect I will end up selling them.
 
I've struggled with nebbiolo, but I keep trying. We had a very disappointing 2009 Marchesi di Barolo on our trip to Ferrara last week, which I think I recorded here. It had all of the shortcomings that nebbiolo traditionally stacks up when not on form (too dry, leathery, tannic, with an empty mid palate, apparent alcohol, rusticity etc.). This Wednesday I'm bringing a PdB Riserva Pora 2005 along to an informal dinner - I have some solid hope for this wine, but you never know. I bought it on release and it's been stored professionally, so any shortcomings are going to originate in the winery. I've found Barbaresco to be slightly more consistent than Barolo over the years. I have had one or two lovely barolos it has to be said including a memorable Barolo Sarmassa 1990 from Marchesi do Barolo, but the hit rate is pretty low.
 
Sarah-Beth Amos said:
Ok I’ll put a (perhaps controversial) line in the sand:

I think when you’re having to make excuses for a wine, you’ve already lost.

I have at least established I like Barolo with about 15/20 years of age on it. Which means I should have bought some when I was a child. (I take the point that this can be made for other styles of wine, but I still think this rule needs to be applied unilaterally to Barolo, which can’t be said for much else).

Whilst the scale runs from old boot-> chewing on a saddle -> meh -> meh -> I paid more money and I still got meh -> I paid even more money and it’s still meh, my goodness this is frustrating -> I paid a lot of money and hmm this is quite nice -> omg I thought I was a white wine girly but lavender and leather and roses my goodness this is wonderful! I start to question the value.

Maybe we just have to accept that you should have bought it 20 years ago to enjoy it now, and if you are so unfortunate as to not have had a bank account then, then tough.

Even for red burgundy I can’t say the above - there are still nice, nay, mind blowing wines to be bought and enjoyed without such hassle. I’m already treading that minefield in Burgundy, why would I inflict that upon myself with Barolo too?

Alright I’ve bitten. Anyone else?
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Older bottles can be bought relatively cheaply at auction.

I think Bordeaux better after 20 years too, and most other tannic wines, including many Burgundies.
 
Jeremy Caan said:
I think Bordeaux better after 20 years too, and most other tannic wines, including many Burgundies.
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Yes, but are they tannic nowadays? it's a rare quality in modern Burgundy( I miss it) and it seems to me in my infrequent samplings of modern Bordeaux that if tannin is there it is usually hidden by alcoholic richness, meaning that the character of the wines has changed very much but that they can be enjoyed when quite new.
 
I guess I’ve been lucky and have had a few great Barolo experiences and plenty of good ones too, unsurprisingly the top experiences have top prices such as Bruno Giacosa and Giuseppe Rinaldi but they are still nowhere near top burgundy.
vintage, storage and maturity all play more important roles than many other regions in having that great experience, storage within Italy has been notoriously poor and maturity tricky to gauge without lots of experience
I was in the ‘they need 20+ years camp’ but now I find there are many producers or vintages that are approachable much earlier, but that comes at the cost of the complexity from aging, I love a good Langhe nebbiolo or similar, but I’m less happy paying Barolo prices for that.
The Produttori in Barbaresco are still one of the wine world’s great bargains imo although prices are creeping up, they need time but not as much as in the past, the 2008 has been drinking well for a few years and I would think 10, 11, 12 and 14’s should be worth checking in on
 
Thom Blach said:
Yes, but are they tannic nowadays? it's a rare quality in modern Burgundy( I miss it) and it seems to me in my infrequent samplings of modern Bordeaux that if tannin is there it is usually hidden by alcoholic richness, meaning that the character of the wines has changed very much but that they can be enjoyed when quite new.
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Plenty still seem to me better older. Figeac 2006 in halves was, to my taste, unready 2 years ago. D'Issan 2007 was getting there but still a touch too young this year. 99 Burgundies are not all there yet. German rieslings seem to me not to peak before about 20.

OTOH I recently enjoyed Prod. Barb Asili 2014 in its unready but balanced state.

As ever, just depends what one enjoys.
 
Checking my tasting notes I see I rather spectacular bottle of 1998 Bruno Giacosa Barolo Falletto di Serralunga d'Alba from @Simon Wheeler was a stunning success.

I have a few bottles of Barolo in the cellar from 2004 thru 2010(where they will remain for years and years I feel).

I have a load of Produttori Barbaresco and I have to say the Riservas are a think of joy when they unfurl. The standard ones have been a bit grumpy from the get go - I have probably 60 bottles of the 2010.
 
The Nebbiolo grape is referred to as the king of wines. I for one won’t argue with that but it does need to be understood in context.Im still learning about the region after years studying it and visiting

It is just like any other wine producing region in the world , different wine making styles and climate changes,ageing and regional exposure.A wine from from La Mora will be in principle much softer than a wine from Serralunga.This is due to a combination of exposure and one is planted mostly on clay and the other on limestone deposits.

The trophy wines age extremely well agreed but it’s a mythical story to say that all Nebbiolo need 20 plus years to be drinking at their best.If that were so then most people would give up interest and no wines would be served in the restaurant’s in Alba.Admittedly the period of the 50-70s was a different story and lack of infrastructure and investment led to morbid wine making. Plus a run of terrible vintages climatically.

Fast Forward to today and vintages becoming much warmer like 09,11,15,17,18 the wines are certainly much more approachable.However, Nebbiolo is not like barbera which thrives in Sun drenched vintages , it is thin skinned and a long cool consistency hang time required.

I think a good starting point is the gerenic barolos from the best producers in the off / hot vintages.Im currently piling through 15/17 from Massolino . Not to mention their silky velvety 2017 cru Margheria which is drinking superb at present and one of the picks of this warmer vintage.

These wines whilst high in acidity and alcohol which may seem too much for some do have a wonderful purity of fruit similar to Pinot noir in Burgundy.Like burgundy that fruit can be full bodied and lighter bodied.

Then comes the styles, old traditions and a new wave of hard working younger generation prefer more modern techniques.Then those who straddle both camps.Today many styles have changed for approachability similar to Bordeaux

I asked Alisio Germmano recently for advice on drinking Cru Barolo and he said that the general rule was 7 years but felt that improving wine making and warmer vintages that was lowering.For me when a wine is mature there is a Musk to it I’ve never found in any other wine collecting now for 30 years. It’s haunting and drives the senses wild like that of a deer to a hound.But that is only my take.

Not to forget the inexpensive langhe Nebbiolo which can be found at very reasonable prices.Einaudi 2021 from the wine society was glorious and drank out of the gate for £11 I think .

For me I have favourite styles below and those like Roberto Voerzio which need far too long for my liking Can jog on.

Grasso,Altare,Azelia,Sandrone,Sandri,Oddero,pira all of which are sensibly priced. The 08s are in a sweet spot at present along with 9 and 11.14 should not be ignored whilst 10,13,16 should be left to sleep. Not a fan of 12

I do hope that those ,understandably lacking confidence do find that addictive Musk I once did and regain their confidence.

Best of all is their ability to partner a wide range of foods At any age.
 
I rediscovered youngish Barolo when I had Covid, and my sense of smell was significantly reduced… They were exactly what I wanted at the time!

Strangely though, I have kept up the habit, and it is precisely for the stringency, structure and grip that I like them. Who wants only soft kisses and cuddles?

I feel no need to chase the grand wines, with lots of interest available from Langhe Nebbiolo and normale bottlings, plus the occasional nicer cru. Produttori Barbaresco has been a reliable (and remarkably varied) option.
 
Barolo and Barbaresco were my first great fine wine love. It helped that, living in New York in the 2010s, one could buy fabulous bottles from the 60s, 70s and 80s, from the likes of Cappellano, Giovannini Moresco, Oddero, Filippo Sobrero, the Produttori etc. And the prices were reasonable given all the years they had been cellared for in an excellent Italian cellar before being exported to the US in a temperature-controlled container.

From memory, only Giacosa, Bartolo Mascarello, and Giuseppe Rinaldi were completely unaffordable at that point.

The wine merchant who sold these bottles to me said that in his experience Barolo and Barbaresco were much more consistent wines than red Burgundy and he could well have been right.

Nowadays, with young children, Barolo and Barbaresco don’t hold quite the same attraction for me because my wife and I usually avoid drinking wines over 13.5% ABV. It is a pity that recent vintages often hover around 15% ABV. The prices rival red Burgundy now also.
 
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