NWR new zero tolerance covid thread

Serious question, don’t shoot me down. As I understand it, the vaccine doesn’t necessarily stop you from getting COVID and doesn’t stop you from transmitting it. If you are a fit 40 something with no existing health conditions, what are the reasons for getting the vaccine? If it’s to protect others, surely it will stop me from transmitting it?
 
Serious question, don’t shoot me down. As I understand it, the vaccine doesn’t necessarily stop you from getting COVID and doesn’t stop you from transmitting it. If you are a fit 40 something with no existing health conditions, what are the reasons for getting the vaccine? If it’s to protect others, surely it will stop me from transmitting it?

To stop the effects being (potentially) so severe should you get it?
 
Serious question, don’t shoot me down. As I understand it, the vaccine doesn’t necessarily stop you from getting COVID and doesn’t stop you from transmitting it. If you are a fit 40 something with no existing health conditions, what are the reasons for getting the vaccine? If it’s to protect others, surely it will stop me from transmitting it?
In addition to Simon's point, I believe getting a milder version makes you less likely to pass it on in contact with others, though I suppose the question then arises that are you now more likely to have asymptomatic transmission, passing the virus on without realising it?
 
Sorry if this is stating the obvious, but the vaccine, while it won't give you 100% protection from catching the virus, it will make it significantly less likely that you'll get it and then, if you do, make it less likely that you'll pass it on. So, if that can be replicated widely within the general population, it will make it much harder for the disease to spread. So those who get it won't pass it on and eventually there will be much less of it around, so it will be even less likely that people will get it. That's what herd immunity is. If only a small proportion of the population can catch and transmit a disease, it's unlikely to spread widely. The disease essentially keeps coming up against dead ends, rather than finding multiple potential pathways to spread.
 
Serious question, don’t shoot me down. As I understand it, the vaccine doesn’t necessarily stop you from getting COVID and doesn’t stop you from transmitting it. If you are a fit 40 something with no existing health conditions, what are the reasons for getting the vaccine? If it’s to protect others, surely it will stop me from transmitting it?
Fair enough question but I think it’s about creating a proper population or herd immunity. A high enough number of fit or not so fit 40 + are going into hospital, even if not for too long or on ventilators. There is some early evidence that some vaccines actually do stop or reduce transmission greatly (up to 70% reduction). It also helps reduce the severity of the disease for anyone that does catch it and bolsters the population immunity.

If the entire population is covered surely the disease just starts to recede until the next wave of mutations as per annual flu . If we get other countries vaccinated as well then we can push down the worldwide spread.

Be interested to hear views from those with more knowledge.
 
Sorry if this is stating the obvious, but the vaccine, while it won't give you 100% protection from catching the virus, it will make it significantly less likely that you'll get it and then, if you do, make it less likely that you'll pass it on. So, if that can be replicated widely within the general population, it will make it much harder for the disease to spread. So those who get it won't pass it on and eventually there will be much less of it around, so it will be even less likely that people will get it. That's what herd immunity is. If only a small proportion of the population can catch and transmit a disease, it's unlikely to spread widely. The disease essentially keeps coming up against dead ends, rather than finding multiple potential pathways to spread.
That's interesting, as it hasn't been my interpretation at all. I thought the vaccine just stops you getting seriously ill, hence protects the nhs. You can still get it, and pass it on, hence why all those who have had the vaccine still need to stay home.
 
That's interesting, as it hasn't been my interpretation at all. I thought the vaccine just stops you getting seriously ill, hence protects the nhs. You can still get it, and pass it on, hence why all those who have had the vaccine still need to stay home.
As ever, we need more data, but it looks like vaccination reduces infectivity:
 
That's interesting, as it hasn't been my interpretation at all. I thought the vaccine just stops you getting seriously ill, hence protects the nhs. You can still get it, and pass it on, hence why all those who have had the vaccine still need to stay home.
My interpretation of what I’ve heard is that vaccines usually reduce the likelihood of passing on the disease, but that we don’t have enough data at the moment to confirm that this one does, so we’d better assume it doesn’t until we have those data.
 
Exactly, I hear lots of of info of what might happen from vaccination, but it all seems conjecture at this point. Hopefully the results from Israel will show how it affects outcomes.
I'm just trying to understand what the end point is. I thought it was the vaccination of the vulnerable, but clearly not.
 
1. Vaccination can reduce the risk of generating severe illness. This should be enough to convince anyone to get a vaccine, though further:
2. If you get vaccinated you also have less chance to get it at all. If we only compare asymptomatic cases, some vaccine don‘t look very effective. But what important is to compare the number of all cases (symptomatic + asymptomatic). As long as the total case number decrease, the transmission chains are reduced.
3. There is new evidence (from Israel actually, to Mark‘s point) that when some vaccinated people still get covid, their viral titre reduced (after 14 days). It is an indirect but convincing evidence that they should be less infectious. This will further reduce the transmission chains.
Decreased SARS-CoV-2 viral load following vaccination
 
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Just wondering what's going on in France? I know Russell's been travelling around, so I guess the lockdown must be mild. The new case rate seems to be stubbornly over 20k/day and ISTR Macron suggesting that it had to fall to consistently below 5k/day before restaurants could re-open. So what's being done to make that happen (other than vaccinations)?
 
Curfew from 6pm to 6am. That’s the primary ‘lockdown’ here.

No ski resorts, restaurants, bars etc. Apparently France has ‘double dosed’ more with vaccines than the U.K. Not sure. I know we have some friends >70 who have had it and others who haven’t.
 
>Apparently France has ‘double dosed’ more with vaccines than the U.K. Not sure.

At 15 Feb: France 2.25m first jab and 633k second cf UK 15m first and 537k second.
 
Another potential rationale for the vaccine.
It seems the new strains often crop up in people who have had a very prolonged infection, often the immunocompromised. In these patients the virus has more time to replicate and more virulent / transmissible strains may be selected.
I would have thought that being vaccinated and thus reducing the length and severity of an infection may reduce this affect. Though I guess it will provide selection pressure to support variants to which the vaccine doesn’t confer protection. It’s a complicated business!
 
Another potential rationale for the vaccine.
It seems the new strains often crop up in people who have had a very prolonged infection, often the immunocompromised. In these patients the virus has more time to replicate and more virulent / transmissible strains may be selected.
I would have thought that being vaccinated and thus reducing the length and severity of an infection may reduce this affect. Though I guess it will provide selection pressure to support variants to which the vaccine doesn’t confer protection. It’s a complicated business!

Indeed I read that the Kent variant may have been from such a case. Kept alive by modern and new treatments the virus found a way to survive, surely a wonder of natural selection. Then the variant was passed on and, in the ultimate two finger wave from Mother Nature the patient died.
I'm reminded of a wasp I read about that lays its egg in another insect, an ant I think, then its offspring eat and grow inside. Wonderful nature. Although the analogy is flawed.
 
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