- Location
- England
There's a pretty obvious difference. There's still oceans of bordeaux sitting in warehouses across France and on various merchants' lists whereas the availability in quantity of top burgundy grand crus is next to nil.
Burgundy why bother ?
- Thread starter Keith Prothero
- Start date
There's a pretty obvious difference. There's still oceans of bordeaux sitting in warehouses across France and on various merchants' lists whereas the availability in quantity of top burgundy grand crus is next to nil.
- Location
- London
Indeed, the market is at work in its purest form and I don't think even the most red-blooded of socialists would propose state intervention
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- Location
- London
If we're going to start a thread on wines which are good value vs. Burgundy, I think we're going to be here a while.
- Location
- Malmesbury
I am sort of relieved that i came to wine after Burgundy had already become un-affordable. I suspect it has helped my bank balance.
- Location
- London
Some burgundy remains excellent value in comparison to wines, especially those made from pinot noir, from other regions, but that is no longer true of many wines from the most famous villages.
- Location
- London
As a thought experiment, I've just sold a bottle of G-D Cote Brune '91 for £1400 for which I paid £40 or so a few years ago. Obviously I bought it with the intention of trying an interesting wine made in a way that's very rare now and in a style I have generally liked and enjoyed.
With the thought proceeds I've just bought two cases of Charles Heidsieck Mis en Cave, a case of Aleth le Royer-Girardin Pommard Rugiens 2001 and a six pack of Rostaing Cote Blonde 2013 all of which wouldn't normally get a look in as my funds are limited (I'm not crying poor mouth, simply stating that everyone has a limit to their funds) and I have allocated those resources elsewhere.
By way of regret, I will now never get to experience that particular peice of history and I suppose that in order to better understand the wines of the Northern Rhone fully (an area of great interest to me) I really ought to taste this particular wine. A great part of this wine's utility to me lies in its ability to provide a broader context to my future drinking of any of the wines of the region.
On the plus side I get three cases of really excellent wine that are ready to drink now, all of which could fuel many really fun times with friends and family and a six pack of a future potentially top-of-the-line Northern Rhone in my cellar. Additionally I get the relief of removing an insurance liability. My insurance covers individual bottles up to the value of £500. Beyond that I'm on my own, or I have to potentially purchase further insurance.
The dilemma probably wouldn't exist if I had several bottles, as I could sell all but one (my real problem isn't in the morality of selling wine when it's ridiculously valuable), more that in only owning a single bottle the and selling the potential experience is gone for good.
What to do?
With the thought proceeds I've just bought two cases of Charles Heidsieck Mis en Cave, a case of Aleth le Royer-Girardin Pommard Rugiens 2001 and a six pack of Rostaing Cote Blonde 2013 all of which wouldn't normally get a look in as my funds are limited (I'm not crying poor mouth, simply stating that everyone has a limit to their funds) and I have allocated those resources elsewhere.
By way of regret, I will now never get to experience that particular peice of history and I suppose that in order to better understand the wines of the Northern Rhone fully (an area of great interest to me) I really ought to taste this particular wine. A great part of this wine's utility to me lies in its ability to provide a broader context to my future drinking of any of the wines of the region.
On the plus side I get three cases of really excellent wine that are ready to drink now, all of which could fuel many really fun times with friends and family and a six pack of a future potentially top-of-the-line Northern Rhone in my cellar. Additionally I get the relief of removing an insurance liability. My insurance covers individual bottles up to the value of £500. Beyond that I'm on my own, or I have to potentially purchase further insurance.
The dilemma probably wouldn't exist if I had several bottles, as I could sell all but one (my real problem isn't in the morality of selling wine when it's ridiculously valuable), more that in only owning a single bottle the and selling the potential experience is gone for good.
What to do?
- Location
- London
Maybe keep £70 of the proceeds and see if you can persuade The Sampler to stick a bottle on?
- Location
- UK
Sell. End of.
- Location
- Nottingham
Do you need more wine?
If the answer is yes and the limiting factor is available funds then that might tip toward selling.
If the answer no, then it tips toward keeping the G-D.
- Location
- Deep South of Cambridgeshire
I'd like to pick up Mr Crossley (as an exemplar more than a personal dig!) on a matter of Realekonomik - you complain that lunches in London are expensive, yet won't "release funds" from over-priced wine in your cellar - Am I alone or simply too much of the "Atilla the Hun school of economics" - is there any contradiction there? ;-)
- Location
- London
I don't think it's that simple. Mark has a particular interest and enthusiasm for the wines of the Northern Rhone and sometimes a taste memory is an asset that lasts a lifetime; I can think of several examples of my own which remain while the great pleasure provided by wines similar to those he mentions has proved ephemeral a few years after consumption. Given that there is no further outlay required the argument could well be made that he should drink it. There is no hurry-it tasted very young indeed last Thursday and was exciting even to me, an ignoramus in these matters. Gentaz-Dervieux was a great producer without a doubt.
It would of course be nice to know whether the bottle is corked.
It would of course be nice to know whether the bottle is corked.
- Location
- Bucks
I bought three G-D 91s from the Wine Society some years ago for £35 each. I opened one with Nigel and a friend from the USA, all of us finding it rather hard and charmless. Later Linden shared a 90 at lunch at St John, which was somewhat less hard but still not one I greatly enjoyed. I sold the third a year or so ago for a lot, if not quite at Mark's level. But as to the second bottle - someone on the Squires board had his house and cellar in California burned to the ground and I donated him a couple of bottles via a visiting US visitor. One of those was a GD91. I kick myself daily...
- Location
- London and Connecticut
G-D was a good producer, but the wine is not worth 1400 GBP. I've been lucky enough to have the 1985, 1988, 1989, 1990 and 1991. None of them are as good as Verset Cornas for instance.
- Location
- Leicestershire
Sell:
- 1991 Gentaz-Dervieux Côte-Rôtie Cuvée Réservée Côte Brune - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Côte-Rôtie (04/09/2011)
My last bottle. Corked. Bummer. NR (flawed) - 1991 Gentaz-Dervieux Côte-Rôtie Cuvée Réservée Côte Brune - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Côte-Rôtie (03/11/2007)
Still youthful looking - no fading at the edge at all. After a couple of hours in the decanter still quite a subdued nose, a bit of cherry-red fruit but not a great deal more showing. No garrigue or bacon fat - a wine somewhat lacking in sauvage character. Similar polished flavour with plent of chalk and cherries and a little tannin. After about 3 hours it takes on a nice meaty quality but this is a mid-weight, mid-flavoured wine overall. (90 pts.)
- Location
- Leicestershire
Similar issue for me with a small number of solitary bottle Burgundies bought years ago:
La Tache 2000, Gevrey Clos St Jacques Rousseau 1996 and Ruchottes Rousseau 1999. I will never get to buy these again so will drink them. If I had multiples I'd sell.
La Tache 2000, Gevrey Clos St Jacques Rousseau 1996 and Ruchottes Rousseau 1999. I will never get to buy these again so will drink them. If I had multiples I'd sell.
- Location
- Herefordshire
Buy 18 bottles of Comtes '06.
- Location
- London
You'd certainly know much better than I, but are they not so different as to make the comparison rather random?
Is the actual experience of any wine worth £1400? I can think of a couple of occasions when pleasure has been so extreme that one could say yes but the nature of wine is that not only cannot such experiences be guaranteed but they are not even probable given all the other variables.
- Location
- London and Connecticut
I dispute that the comparison is random Tom. You may not find the comparison edifying but these are producers from the N. Rhone making wines from old vines from 100% Syrah. The Verset wines are in a different league.
- Location
- Leicestershire
The two Burgundies I've enjoyed most this year, in equal measure, are a 2008 Germain Chorey-Les-Beaune and a 2007 Dujac Morey 1er Cru. These were followed close behind by a 2002 Montille Bourgogne and a 1990 Faiveley Mercurey. Status and price counts for little...
Isn't the real pleasure of Burgundy its artisan character? That can still be experienced at decent prices. I now focus on Chorey, Savigny, Pernand, Givry, Mercurey, Santenay with the occasional foray into Beaune 1er cru territory. All give an authentic taste of Red Burgundy.
Isn't the real pleasure of Burgundy its artisan character? That can still be experienced at decent prices. I now focus on Chorey, Savigny, Pernand, Givry, Mercurey, Santenay with the occasional foray into Beaune 1er cru territory. All give an authentic taste of Red Burgundy.
- Location
- London
I bow to your superior knowledge, Richard. Is that a generally held view among aficionados?
- Location
- Southern England
I remember knocking back a bottle of that G-D 91 and a 91 Allemand Reynards (both ex-TWS) with various other members of the college wine society shortly after their offer. I had no idea how pricey it had got. Nuts!!!
- Location
- London
I may be wrong but my understanding is that the price of Gentaz is driven entirely by one purchaser in the US who will pay whatever it takes to secure all remaining stocks. One has to wonder at his motivation!
- Location
- Southern England
I can believe it.
- Location
- Wiltshire
I have one bottle left of GD CR '91 from the Wine Society offer.
The previous 2 have just been worth the £35 I paid - certainly not the silly 'value' it now commands.
Mark, I suggest you sell yours and I'll have half the lovely wines you buy with the proceeds.
Then we share my bottle somewhen, (which no doubt will be corked!)
Simples
Thom - I too have heard this - but it may have been from you previously on this board!
The previous 2 have just been worth the £35 I paid - certainly not the silly 'value' it now commands.
Mark, I suggest you sell yours and I'll have half the lovely wines you buy with the proceeds.
Then we share my bottle somewhen, (which no doubt will be corked!)
Simples
Thom - I too have heard this - but it may have been from you previously on this board!
Can you give me a name, Tom? I still have quite a bit of 1991 Gentaz-Dervieux, more than I expect to drink in my remaining lifetime.