- Location
- Leeds
Growers like PYCM and Dancer show what is possible from modern white burgundy producers. Plenty of fine to found at not monster money try Bret Brothers, Dureuil-Janthial, the list is long just needs some research
Unrequited Love
- Thread starter Adam Holland
- Start date
- Location
- London
PYCM
True, but it's nearly all very dull indeed, at least to my taste, a taste not so much unrequited as jilted-I mean, no-one's going to get excited drinking a bottle from the perfectly respectable Dureuil-Janthial or Vincent Dancer, and while PYCM is definitely good the grander wines are really no better at all than they should be.
- Location
- London
In the land of the blind......
- Location
- Deep South of Cambridgeshire
Yeah. I've never had a "thrilling" PYCM in the same way I've had an old Leflaive, although I think they're good wines. I recall liking the Ente wines at the Chardonnay shoot-out (taking 2nd and joint 3rd places for me), but that was not the most conducive of settings.
- Location
- Yorkshire
I had a half case of the 2000 from TWS - they were rather lovely as I recall.
- Location
- Yorkshire
The wine I cannot get at all is Gruner Veltliner .
- Location
- Bath
I can't speak from the kind of experience Thom and Joel have; but after a fair amount of experimentation, and aside from Chablis, modern white Burgundy usually leaves me cold also.
- Location
- Yorkshire
I have been extremely fortunate to taste and drink a lot of burgundy including Ente and nothing comes close to the likes of ramonet from the 80s still drinking beyond belief today, Neillon 91 and 92 drank recently are my fondest memories
but I do agree with bits of all of the above,particularly the young new generation making affordable white burgundy From less fashionable areas.
As with the red wines, it’s the 1er crus where I’m most underwhelmed given the prices I’m expected to pay.
but I do agree with bits of all of the above,particularly the young new generation making affordable white burgundy From less fashionable areas.
As with the red wines, it’s the 1er crus where I’m most underwhelmed given the prices I’m expected to pay.
- Location
- Dorset, England
I am going to say two words: Joseph + Colin.
- Location
- London
Me neither, until that is we had several versions when staying in the mountains in Austria in the summer with our friends - all of a sudden it made sense.
- Location
- Bordeaux
Hi All,
I think this is a fascinating thread, although some people have gone away from the theme of “unrequited love” to talk about wines they perhaps have not really made an effort to get to know.
Example: I have had Mas de Daumas Gassac on several occasions and been underwhelmed. But I really can’t say that I ever tried to get a serious handle on the wine, much less love it. So it is only fair that my disappointment should be qualified.
Then you have a gray area, like la Coulée de Serrant. I’ve had the wine five times at table and once at the estate. I really wanted to like this famous wine, but have been consistently disappointed. Still, I won’t rule it out, and leave room for the benefit of the doubt.
As regards estates, as opposed to entire regions, wines can be like restaurants: a change in management can make all the difference – either way. Of course, terroir is terroir, but a mundane terroir can produce something rather good if in the right hands.
As for myself, I have a problem with aromatic grape varieties like Viognier and Gewurtztraminer and am not a fan of Pinot Gris. And I *have* had these wines a number of times, so put that squarely in the unrequited category.
I’m surprised no one seems to have mentioned red Burgundy. I certainly won’t go so far as Thom’s blanket statement with regard to Bordeaux or others with regard to Italy but, let’s be honest, the hit or miss nature of expensive wines from the Côte d’Or can be maddening. Maybe it’s best to compare this phenomenon with an impetuous mistress, where the frustrating and disappointing moments are perhaps compensated by the wonderful, even sublime ones. Still, it’s one hell of a roller coaster ride… Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton.
Best regards,
Alex R.
I think this is a fascinating thread, although some people have gone away from the theme of “unrequited love” to talk about wines they perhaps have not really made an effort to get to know.
Example: I have had Mas de Daumas Gassac on several occasions and been underwhelmed. But I really can’t say that I ever tried to get a serious handle on the wine, much less love it. So it is only fair that my disappointment should be qualified.
Then you have a gray area, like la Coulée de Serrant. I’ve had the wine five times at table and once at the estate. I really wanted to like this famous wine, but have been consistently disappointed. Still, I won’t rule it out, and leave room for the benefit of the doubt.
As regards estates, as opposed to entire regions, wines can be like restaurants: a change in management can make all the difference – either way. Of course, terroir is terroir, but a mundane terroir can produce something rather good if in the right hands.
As for myself, I have a problem with aromatic grape varieties like Viognier and Gewurtztraminer and am not a fan of Pinot Gris. And I *have* had these wines a number of times, so put that squarely in the unrequited category.
I’m surprised no one seems to have mentioned red Burgundy. I certainly won’t go so far as Thom’s blanket statement with regard to Bordeaux or others with regard to Italy but, let’s be honest, the hit or miss nature of expensive wines from the Côte d’Or can be maddening. Maybe it’s best to compare this phenomenon with an impetuous mistress, where the frustrating and disappointing moments are perhaps compensated by the wonderful, even sublime ones. Still, it’s one hell of a roller coaster ride… Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton.
Best regards,
Alex R.
- Location
- London
- Location
- St Albans
I assume Alex means the thing about 1990 Montrose, but that wasn't your blanket statement, it was someone else's!
- Location
- Kent
I am a humble and willing student, ready to be (re)converted to the white burgundy way
- Location
- Brighton
Burgundy reds and Barolo for me
- Location
- UK
I think Auslese often just need more time. A recent 95 Haag BJS Auslese tasted pretty much bone dry and was spellbinding. Suspect the Prum 01s will be wonderful in another 20yrs.
- Location
- Nottinhgham
Cabernet Sauvignon. It’s so dull. I’ve tried, really I’ve tiried, but their is nothing really that has excited me. Bdx, Oz, USA, SA. They are all just a little dull. I might have said exactly the same thing about Merlot, except a sublime 1970 Ch Petrus which was liquid silk. Bugger. Even Cab Franc and Carmenere excites more than Cabernet. Hey ho, the world would be a very dull place if we all enjoyed the same style of wine !
- Location
- Nottinhgham
You need to came and have dinner in burgundy. Le Soufflot in Meursault will sort that out. Or Falsaff in Verduno.
- Location
- London
Alas, when I visited in September, Franco told me he was closing this January as his lease was up. He intended to rent an apartment and run a small “supper club” but I am not sure if it went ahead. A real shame!
- Location
- Dorset, England
Brilliant.
.I recently came to terms with not visiting Burgundy for a couple+ more months & then you mention Le Soufflot.
Maybe, just maybe, we can arrange a rendezvous there, later this summer.
- Location
- Nottinhgham
oh noooo. i recall from scratch, a cardoon souflee that was beyond delightful. adulation beyond words. a genius.
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- Location
- Herefordshire
- Location
- London
Good thread.
German Riesling. I sort of get it, I quite like it, but I am a long way from loving it, despite Jeremy’s sporadic and patient attempts to educate me over the years. I am still persevering having recently taken delivery of a mixed case of the wines of Peter Jakob Kuhn from Howard Ripley. Exceptionally well crafted (Teutonic) wines they tick so many boxes but leave me cold.
Over the years I have struggled with champagne, and still do. Case in point was the Bollinger PN VZ15 Blanc de Noirs at our recent offline in North London, which I did not appreciate the way the others seemed to. But I am much further along that road than the Riesling road.
Interesting comments on white burgundy, which comes in for more disparagement than most. I have been on a perennial quest to find something that can reliably substitute in for - the low end - white burgundies I like to open in week days, and I have only had partial successes with stuff like SA Chenin, the odd Spanish Acquisition (which nobody expects) from TWS, etc.
Moreover bog standard Bourgogne Blanc can get a bit tedious. My case of Ballot Millot BB 2017 has been so poor that I have palmed the rest of the case to my daughter (23 year olds tend to be less discerning when it comes to the boudoir of the grape). I am looking more to places like Cotes Challonaise. I am lucky in that there is very little I do not like or appreciate (apart from perhaps Chilean wines), and like Richard do not really want the financial burden of discovering new regions like Oregon or (Al Pacino voice)...Sicily
German Riesling. I sort of get it, I quite like it, but I am a long way from loving it, despite Jeremy’s sporadic and patient attempts to educate me over the years. I am still persevering having recently taken delivery of a mixed case of the wines of Peter Jakob Kuhn from Howard Ripley. Exceptionally well crafted (Teutonic) wines they tick so many boxes but leave me cold.
Over the years I have struggled with champagne, and still do. Case in point was the Bollinger PN VZ15 Blanc de Noirs at our recent offline in North London, which I did not appreciate the way the others seemed to. But I am much further along that road than the Riesling road.
Interesting comments on white burgundy, which comes in for more disparagement than most. I have been on a perennial quest to find something that can reliably substitute in for - the low end - white burgundies I like to open in week days, and I have only had partial successes with stuff like SA Chenin, the odd Spanish Acquisition (which nobody expects) from TWS, etc.
Moreover bog standard Bourgogne Blanc can get a bit tedious. My case of Ballot Millot BB 2017 has been so poor that I have palmed the rest of the case to my daughter (23 year olds tend to be less discerning when it comes to the boudoir of the grape). I am looking more to places like Cotes Challonaise. I am lucky in that there is very little I do not like or appreciate (apart from perhaps Chilean wines), and like Richard do not really want the financial burden of discovering new regions like Oregon or (Al Pacino voice)...Sicily
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- Location
- Nottinhgham
or even in Maufoux.... (New one in Chablis opening this summer...)Brilliant.
I recently came to terms with not visiting Burgundy for a couple+ more months & then you mention Le Soufflot.
Maybe, just maybe, we can arrange a rendezvous there, later this summer.
- Location
- Bangkok
I really love fruity style Riesling but just find it jarring in a line up of wines through dinner - I prefer it on its own as a light lunch or at about about 3am as - Erni Loosen best puts it - as a wine to drink myself sober.